Muzzleloading the sport, hobby, or what you call it needs

[gard72977]

If you think people should be allowed to make up there own mind just go to the mall and look around. :hmm:

 

[azmntman]

:rotf: :thumbsup: :rotf: or see the "people of walmart" photo's that circulate in e-mails.

I'm all for doing your own thing....just think the world has more to offer than where some get comfortable. IMHO

 

[Loyalist Dave]

azmntman Said:Too many fathers have careers they cherish more than their families and to many families have dads that are fully out of the picture or once a month dads who "buy" their respect and love with electronics and McDonalds.

Why blame people who have no interest in what we do, for the demise of the things we care about? If there just aren't enough of us, that's life. By all means, promote it, but don't blame people for not being interested.

Why should they care more about muzzleloading than something else they enjoy? Perhaps they are disappointed with us because we aren't supporting the video game industry or paintball, or stamp collecting?

What happened to letting people make their own choices? Isn't it their right to choose video games and TV if they wish?

Well Written! :applause:

Dad's and Mom's like what they like, and as was also mentioned, in these economic times it's tough to have the cash to spend on more than a "stay-cation", let alone a shooting sport...my daughter is on the JMU archery team (they don't have a shooting team) and I just dropped $1600 on an Olympic Recurve Bow. :shocked2: I would've preferred to have dropped the cash on an Olympic target .22... but she is doing "stick-and-string" as it's a big social group at the university, and due to The Hunger Games being some of her favorite books. She could do black powder with me, but she can't down there at school... at least not on campus...besides it turns out she's pretty good...

The current senior curator of the National Firearms Museum is Phil Schreier, and he grew up in a house without firearms and without hunting. I know this as he and I grew up about 3 blocks apart, and he got me into Scouting. I hunted with my dad, but didn't do black powder until Phil got me into CW reenactment. Also the AMM camp at the 1976 World Jamboree helped too. :grin:

So what does dad have to do with it? He CAN be of help, so can a Grandad, so while he is important to rasing a kid he isn't necessary for trying a shooting sport.

I didn't get into flinters until 1992 as a former USMC Infantry Officer, and after seeing Last of The Mohicans. (I had been a cop for about two years at the time.) I decided to try that instead of a caplock Springfield for shooting, and the rest is history. I don't hunt with anything other than black powder now.

OH..., and questions based on LOTM continued to be posed to reenactors for about 10 years after the movie. Movies do help. A lot of "pirate guns" are being sold due to Pirates of The Caribbean, and there are a lot of Ren Fairs that offer "Pirate Weekends" (even though the Age of Piracy was after the Renaissance) that are keeping the demand for pirate guns going.

Basically, you see a drop in participation in times of poor economics. The only way to counteract this is to hold on until the economics improve, AND to offer to share your knowledge with youngsters..., and oldsters too....

We just had a "drill and grill" event, and had 3 folks new to black powder, a 15 year old, a 31 year old, and a 50 year old. (The 31 year old has sons 5 and 3...so there's some depth for black powder there :wink: )

A drill and grill event is where we invite folks to come and learn some basic musket handling, and they also get to shoot a few times, then we have a lovely picnic (though it was indoors as it's still kinda cold). No uniforms, just the guns and the food. In the past 6 months we have added 3 folks under 21, two families with youngsters, and two older guys. it can be done, even in the People's Republic of Maryland.

We've seen this before. What kept flinters alive from WWII to 1976? TV did a bit, so did movies like Jeremiah Johnson and The Mountain Men, and Disney's Davey Crocket. There are way more builders today than in the 1980's, and they are doing better work. Four companies have appeared offering military repros when before them there was only one, so somebody is keeping them in business.

The current group of young teens is looking for something different. Offer them something different, something "cool" like survival skills, offer Scouts "leave no trace camping" (mocs don't leave tracks like hiking boots do), and "organic free range meat" (aka venison). If not Scouts, then try Royal Rangers. Try to get the parents involved. Some recent surveys of teens were kinda sad..., many of the kids chose "more time with mom and dad" as what they wanted... and the parents didn't even realize this.

LOOK have your club thow some sort of event..., we did. Invite folks. Try an "overnight" with modern gear, only have some BP folks do it "primitive". SHOW the parents they can get the kids away from Nintendo and Facebook and the iPod, and they will still have fun. Demonstrate off to the side some BP guns. Not mandatory..., but IF the parents would like to try, and maybe let the kids try...

We've found that if you let them shoot the guns, even if it's just blanks, you open a new world and new enthusiasm.

LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

Go to the Welcome to camp forum and look at the posting dates. almost every day someone new joins. 5 within the last 24 hours. and these are just the ones introducing themselves.

I'm sure Claude has some interesting stats.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I'm sure Claude has some interesting stats.

 

[FishDFly]

The interesting statistic is longevity, not the number joining, but lasting and lasting how long, that is what counts.

In some club's I have shot in, we had newcomers coming in and they lasted a very short time.

They expected to be at the top of leader board after a match or so. When they were not top shooters, they left quickly. They were shooting against shooters with 30 years or so experience.

There is a lot to consider in the sport, it's not simple.

 

[Rifleman1776]

My club has lost some members in the past year. I don't know why. These were people who lived near the range that is out, way out, in the boonies, and helped build the facility. Nice people and hard workers. Sad part, they were 'younger', in the 40 to 60 age bracket. The remaining members are mostly 70+ and several have serious health problems. Life moves on.

 

[FishDFly]

My club has lost some members in the past year. I don't know why. These were people who lived near the range that is out, way out, in the boonies, and helped build the facility. Nice people and hard workers. Sad part, they were 'younger', in the 40 to 60 age bracket. The remaining members are mostly 70+ and several have serious health problems. Life moves on.

The remaining members are mostly 70+ and several have serious health problems. Life moves on.[/quote]



Your last sentence says what is happening in the community of M/L's.

I just came back from the WNS and a group of the shooters is grounded by health issues at home. The same in the Texas state club along with Friendship.

Folks say the savior of M/L is the youth, that is not the answer. The youth do not have the money to buy what is needed, the transportation to get to shoots and the knowledge of M/L's without adult supervision.

Folks here always asking, how do I clean my gun and how do I load it? How do you expect the youth to safely load and shoot guns when folks here can not?

In the 80s and 90s a person could buy guns and
supplies and find a club or a place to shoot easily. Not anymore.

Find a place to buy a new M/L that is not custom made and less than $1,400 or so.

Find powder and caps today at reasonable prices.

Tip Curtis was selling caps at the WNS for $12.00 a tin, that is not correct. I went to his tent twice with $1,500 in my pocket to buy a rifle, first day he was more interested in going out to eat and the next day he did not wait on me nor my wife. I asked the Friendship shooters at the WNS about him and they said he can be a bit cranky.

When youth shoot in 4H or the Boy Scouts, they do so until they get a drivers license and then they are gone, girls and guns do not mix.

I do not have the answer, if I did I could be rich selling insight to clubs and organizations.

 

[Old Creek]

Dave i need to send you an email address and have you pitch that to the nearest club to me. i have been to several events and met most of the club but still get less than straight answers to questions and though the guy i have main contact with assures me they want me they always have another hoop to jump through. i understand it is a private club and membership needs to be earned and deserved but if joining the Corp had been this much work and taken so long i would have remained a civillian and got on with life 4 years sooner. i am a soft spoken guy and easy to get along with so i dont think its a personality thing, i think they have just had the same membership so long they have become clannish. i am eager to learn and enjoy it a great deal but i cant afford to put out the money for an outfit on a promise, i gotta have the ring first.
i am glad this came back up, i am gonna get hold of the VP and let him know i want to be a part of what they are doing but i need to know EXACTLY what its gonna take and when or i will just have to move on and put the time i spend on this into my treeing feist and count it as a lesson learned the hard way.

creek

 

[coloradoclyde]

The key to solving any problem is proper identification.

 

[Coot]

It's not just muzzleloaders. I belong to several clubs and the loss of members and the desire to attract more younger members is a constant refrain. Unfortunately, the amount of time spent obsessing over declining memberships & how to get younger folks to join is somewhat counterproductive as it gives guests & potential members the idea that the groups are dying & that there is no reason to join. Likewise, people are good at coming up with things that make more work for the officers & then wonder why it is hard to get members to become officers. I think that the best two things for all these groups to concentrate on are:
1) Having fun. Hold enjoyable meetings and events so that the current members have a good time & that guests will want to join. No matter how hard anyone tries, if the current members are not having fun, attracting new ones will be impossible.
2) Make it easier on the officers/workers. Simplify or eliminate admin. functions, reports, labor intensive events. No one joins a group because they are looking for extra unpaid work.
The younger generations are not the "joiners" that their parents & grandparents were.

 

[coloradoclyde]

If we open a quarrel between past and present, we shall find that we have lost the future.

Winston Churchill

 

[Claude Mathis]

It's not just muzzleloaders. I belong to several clubs and the loss of members and the desire to attract more younger members is a constant refrain.

The younger generations are not the "joiners" that their parents & grandparents were.

You're so right. I've seen this with computer user groups, motorcycle clubs, etc.

It's like any product - you first find a need, then fill it. You don't produce something then try to convince people they need it. People need different things as time goes on. Young people just might not need what we're selling. Especially when you consider the multitude of choices they have today, that past generations didn't have. When I was a kid, you had to meet face-to-face, to "hang out". Now, they can do it online, in real time, without getting off their butts.

Many years ago I was in computer user group. We had a hundred people at our monthly meetings. We watched attendance drop to a couple dozen, due to the Internet and the fact that the members simply didn't need us anymore. They could get everything we had to offer and more on the Internet. The very computers that we used to meet and discuss made us obsolete.

It's a changing world and many folks are frustrated because they can't see it or perhaps can't accept it.

 

[bpd303]

There's that for sure. There is also the fact that there are a lot of shooters who just do not join clubs or ranges. I for one have been shooting for over 50 years and have never had the need to join a club. Fortunately I have always lived in an area where I could shoot without needing to belong.

 

[mooman76]

I belonged to a club in UT years ago. Not quite official but I felt like a member and that's what's important. I was in the military and moved before I could be a full fledged member. I had hoped to move back there and take up where I left off but it never happened. Great group of guys though and they always made newcomers or potential newcomers welcome.
Sadly there is no club here but if there is, they are keeping it a secret. When I retire again, I won't stay here and hope wherever I end up, they have a ML club.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have belonged to many clubs in the past; today I belong to no gun clubs.
You may ask why? The short answer is many clubs today have an introverted atmosphere that contradicts the definition of the type of club that they are.
One should not be surprised that members leave when you lure them in with bells and flowers and present them with howls and stones.
Every club has a poison pill, given enough time they usually end up the last man standing as the exodus of the membership clears the horizon.
When politics, rhetoric and hatred become the daily meal it is no wonder that members founder and lament..
With all of that being said the best gun club I ever belonged to was a muzzleloader club.
I would also assert that a new member joining a club needs to form a bond with someone the first day, it is important to recognize that bond.
Ok ramble over.

 

[akapennypincher]

Lots of good information and ideas. Now if so I put into action a few new shooters could be on the firing line.

 

[2172]

My vey thougth hank

 

My vey thougth hank

Huh? What thought would that be? Quoting the person really helps people know what you're talking about. :v

 

[wpjson]

Here's my thoughts on this whole deal. A part of the problem is folks do not talk to other folks who disagree with them. We have two side yelling and no one talking. Black Powder folks are rare. There ain't a lot of us to start with. My belief is conversation rather than confrontation. Many who do not like the thought of guns, can only see them as killing machines, aimed at them, their friends and neighbors. When we start yelling back, it only frightens them more. With the notable exception of my time in the army, I have always thought of a gun as a tool. Raised on a ranch in Montana, we used guns for pest control, to put down an injured animal, to hunt and just enjoying a bit of shooting. I understood they are weapons, but so are axe handles. Now, when my non-shooting friends and I talk about shooting, I make an effort to be civil. I am the one who wants to make converts to our hobby, sport, passtime or whatever. It is not always easy. I have introduced several folks to black powder shooting, many are supporters of gun control. If they have an interest in shooting, their support for their position will weaken, even if they never totally change. My daughter, never a big fan of guns, now wants a flintlock for her birthday present. She will never hunt. It is not real useful for protection, but she has been bitten by the same bug we have been. I recently tought 2 Japanese citizens how to fire black powder. These were the first guns they had ever seen, except for tv and movies. A very liberal friend was out shooting with me last summer. He was so bitten, he went out at bought his 2 young boys their first .22's. They often join me at my little range in the mountains. It is a fun sport. For it to grow we have to reach out. Hanging with other muzzleloaders is fun, but that don't grow the sport. Those who disagree with us are potential converts and our future. If this borders on the political and gets deleted, I understand.