MVTC Fowler first impressions

[weirdjack]

Okay, the "New England Fowler" arrived yesterday from Middlesex Village Trading Company. I ordered it one week ago, they tuned and checked it out over the weekend, it shipped out on Monday, it arrived on Thursday....not bad service. It was wrapped in bubble wrap (period correct of course), then it was double-boxed. Mr. Brown had no luck in damaging it during shipment.

-- The basics --
bore - .702" (listed as a .69 caliber)
barrel length - 51"
overall length - 67.5"
length of pull - 13"
stock - rosewood
weight - 8.8 lbs

-- Changes from previous buyer's reports to me --
*The tumbler has no half-cock notch, dog is the safety catch.
*There's a bridle on the tumbler now.
*There's a link bridle between frizzen screw and the frizzen spring screw.
*Ramrod is 1st Model Bess style. It no longer has the modern jag on the end. This looks better, but some might not like using a spiral worm for cleaning. I find it to be an improvement.

-- Initial impressions of my gun --
*It's big....very big! Really freakin' big!!
*Too much wood on forearm for sure...as discussed in depth everywhere.
*Stock finish isn't as bad as expected. It'll do for now. I'll refinish it when I trim things a little later on.
*Metal is polished like the chrome on a '58 Caddy. So I'll be using fouling on the brass and mustard on the steel.
*Fit on everything is far far better than I expected.
*Vent drilled too low for my tastes. I'll either lower the pan floor some or install a liner off-center.
*Mainspring is about the same as my Navy Arms Charleville...not bad at all really.
*Trigger pull is stout, but not as stiff as I expected. I have no trouble with it so far.
*Huge front sight (a plus for my old eyes)
*The cast thimbles look a bit big to me, I'll tarnish them so your eyes aren't drawn to the bright lights.
*Hammerstall & flashguard provided for reinactment safety requirements.
*I need to get used to using the dog in my priming sequence.
*The balance is absolutely wonderful! I was surprised when I put it up to my shoulder....As large as it is, it's very well-balanced and everything lines up with no effort. No more squinting out the corner of my eye, with my head cocked sideways, cheek buried in the stock, as I've been doing with the Charleville for all of these years.

Two and a half more hours in this cubicle, then I'll head out to the club range and see how it shoots.

Jack

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Weird Jack,
Do you think it feasible to remove enough wood to reduce overall weight to seven pounds or less (and still have the gun look good and balance well)?
Good luck with the shooting!
Best Wishes

 

[jstranah]

What is the drop on the stock like? From the pics on their web site it looks pretty extreme, as befits a fowler I guess... just raise it up and get your sight picture and BOOM! I like to be able to cheek my guns though. Can you do that with yours?

Also do follow up on the shooting report -- I have been looking at this gun & I'm all ears!

 

[jim gray]

That is an excellent review. Thanks for the information. :thumbsup:

 

[Okwaho]

Jack, the fowler looks good and I dare say you are correct in that there is too much wood.I'm satisfied that the forestock needs to be slmmed down from the bottom and there's too much wood below the lock and side plate panel. But most all of the production guns and fully half of the ones made by individuals have too much wood there as well as the forestock.It's the nature of the beast.Are you going to take off the finish and redo it? If so a light scraping would be a nice touch.My 1680's French fusil was scraped and that plus a good aging finish on the metal and wood made all the difference.It didn't hurt to drag one side up a gravel driveway and put in some dings before the scraping and finishing was done either, but I wanted the gun to look as if I had carried it for about 45 years.
Cheers
Tom Patton :m2c:

 

[nirom]

I dearly love mine and agree with your excellent review I also refinished mine completely stripping wood and metal the rammer however is something I have to change. any ideas for a nice replacement? the owners of MVTC. are great people to deal with and are very eager to please.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'd love to get my hands on one of those and see if I could make it look like the real thing. They are so close yet so far as they come out of the box.
I've seen the ads for these, and at first glance they look great. Everyone who owns them give pretty much the same review, which is "it ain't bad for the money".
I guess the best way to approach these is to consider them an assembled in the white kit when you recieve them.
It seems the locks function well, and you could probably antique the buffed finish on all the metal work. The stock shouldn't be any problem to slim down properly and the wood could be stained to look something more like walnut.
Anybody want to send one my way to work my magic on? ::

 

[Vince N]

FYI. The "original" fowler is in Geo. Neumann Battle Weapons book and is stated: "weight 9 lbs."

 

[Mike Brooks]

There are 20 something examples in Glinslade's new book on fowlers too.

 

[Okwaho]

Mike has generously offered to "work his magic" on this gun
but I don't know about sending a gun to a fellow who I'm sure wanders through his vast empire of chickens in their quarters barefoot.I know he would do an excellent job,it's just that well, while I may be a smelly old goat,I wouldn't wander about the goat domicile without shoes and so I have to wonder about him.
Tom Patton :blah: :results: :m2c:

 

[gof]

If the offer is still open, I'd take you up on it!

Greg
aka
Gentlemen of Fortune

 

[weirdjack]

To answer some of the questions raised:
1. Yes, I think it can be slimmed down some.
2. I plan on refinishing mine eventually. I want to shoot it a lot more and lug it into the woods awhile first, so I know exactly what I want to change when I pull off the factory finish. That said, I like the rosewood....I'll probably just put some antiquing on it and an oil finish after scraping.
3. I used lemon juice on the barrel and lock, fouling on the brass to tone things down tremendously. Still working on it.
4. 8.8 pounds ain't nearly as bad as an 11 pound Bess or my 9 pound Tennesee with all it's weight in the barrel.
5. The weight is very well balanced. The size makes it look like it would not balance well..it really does.
6. Drop in stock is extreme. That was part of my choice. I have been shooting a Navy Arms 1763 Charleville that you have to almost lay down to get the barrel lined up. I can shoot this one with my head up finally!
7. I would advise anyone ordering one to request the vent be drilled[url] higher...in[/url] line with the top of the pan. Mine is on the bottom of the pan. Although, it has yet to misfire or hangfire. I plan on deepening the pan though.

Stay tuned for the initial shooting trials. I put 105 rounds theough it over Friday and Saturday. It poured rain all day Friday and drizzled Saturday. Not a single misfire.
I'm almost used to the size of it now.

And a personal plea....If anyone has a photo of the original Cookson Fowler, could you please provide a jpeg for me? I'd like to compare the two.

Jack

 

[amccall]

I just wanted to chime in and give a second opinion about Weird Jack's new smoothbore. We ended up shooting together at the gun club and I got to see what he was talking about for myself. For the size of it I was amazed at how light and balanced it was. From what I viewed it fired consistantly and it was raining outside at the time. I liked the wood grain and color, the finish could be changed to whatever you liked. The only thing that I did not like was the cheek rest was narrower than I like and the length of pull was shorter than what I am used to but that is a personal preferance. Over all I was impressed with the gun and thought that it was a good buy for the money. :hatsoff:

 

[weirdjack]

Thanks He-Bear! And once again I am sorry that the flint was flung your way! Yup, the only mishap I have had in 105 shots from the MVTC Fowler was around shot # 95 or so. Apparently the flint had worked a little loose in the leather. When the gun fired, the vent blast popped the flint out to the right about 6 feet. Not as far as He-Bear was standing, but it was a surprise anyway. I'll keep it tight from now on.
Soooooo.......I shot the MVTC Fowler both Friday and Saturday. Friday was pouring rain with lots of wind. Our club has a lovely covered loading benches and firing line, a real boon when it's pouring down rain. But the humidity is still there and the wind was blowing the rain in constantly. I got soaked, my gun got soaked, everything got soaked. The wetness clogged my priming flask mechanism, twice I had to pull the thing apart and clear powder sludge from the spout/spring (okay, that's what I get from not priming from the horn!). I mean, it was raining so hard that I had to stop and replace the target backing because the rain had disintegrated the double cardboard sheet the target was stapled to. But the gun fired 65 times that day with no misfires nor hangfires...no flint knapping...nothing but load and fire load and fire.
Saturday it was not raining as hard....more of a steady drizzle, with everything soaked from constant rain. And yet, another 40 shots were flawlessly fired from the Fowler with the original flint, no knapping, no problems.
I still can't hit the broadside of a barn, but then I never could. These were plinking reliability tests...just getting the feel for the gun shooting .662" balls with .017" ticking for ease of loading over 50 grains of 2F. This coming weekend I'll bench it to see what load really shoots best, then go back to offhand and try to learn to shoot it well.
Oh yes, I did get the shiney off it. I just keep rubbing fouling over the brass bits and I gave all the steel a bath in lemon juice. Every day the steel gets a little darker gray color and is starting to take on some character now.
Jack

 

[Gaze]

...shooting .662" balls with .017" ticking for ease of loading over 50 grains of 2F.

Does she kick hard or does she just give you a big push?

 

[weirdjack]

Does she kick hard or does she just give you a big push?

With only 50 grains of 2F under a .662 patched ball, it gives a rather gentle push. The same 50 grain volume of 3F gives a "sharp kick". When I up the 2F charge to 70 grains and it is still a push, just a little harder push. It's actually a very mellow gun to shoot if you stick with 2F powder...it's just a very large gun!
* This brings up one of the reasons I bought this particular gun: the butt design and recoil. I have ITP, no biggie, it just means I have very few platelets swimming around in my blood so I bleed and I bruise easily. I'm a delicate man ! After a couple hours at the club shooting 40 rounds or so from my Tennessee rifle or Charleville musket, my arm at the shoulder always has a large bruise shaped like the buttplate of either gun. The bruise lasts a good week or more. The Tennessee hooks the arm right at the shoulder nicely....and bruises it nicely. The Charleville I have to put in the same spot in order to get my eye to the sights (okay I confess, I have a rear sight on it!). Both guns require my head to be tilted and cheek down on the comb to view the sights.
Sooooooo.....I looked for a gun that I could place the buttplate elsewhere, and one that I could keep my head somewhat upright while aiming and firing. The drop of the butt on the Fowler enables me to keep my head up...and the fat slightly-angled buttplate locks right into the pocket just inside of my shoulder below my collarbone. For some reason, this is the sweet spot. And I swear that the curve of the stock drop changes the felt recoil.
The result: no neck strain while aiming and after 105 shots over two days no bruise at all! A normal slight red welt, but no big black bruise. I'm healed.....!!

Jack

 

[big bore 75]

I realize that this statement might not be p.c. but have you ever concidered getting a past recoil shield for your shoulder, it can be hiden under your pc clothing, my wife also has the same problem, and she swears by it after long sesion at range she don't have any bruising, and she isn't sore Ither. bb75

 

[weirdjack]

have you ever concidered getting a past recoil shield for your shoulder

Nope...I've never considered it. I have a really hard time incorporating modern shooting aids, so I don't. I don't use Teflon coated patches either ... Stock design enabling better buttplate placement has done the trick for me though, so no worries.
Jack

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm surprised that gun doesn't pound the poop out of you. Usually a short pull and a roman nose = a bad kick under the cheek bone. Addd a large caliber and you really have trouble!
The drop must be just right for you on this one. Better keep ahold of that one!

 

[rickystl]

WOW !!! What a great thread. Thanks Weird Jack for all the input. For aging you mentioned the use of lemon oil for the steel parts. But what is the "fouling" that you use for the brass to age it? I have two MVTC pistols I would like to do this to. I will be ordering one of those fowlers from MVTC. And will probably have mine drop-shipped direct to Mr.Mike Brooks for minor alterations. Again, Jack, thanks for the information.