My 1st BP/flintlock, getting started

[92GTA]

So I'm going to buy a Loyalist Arms Elliot Light Dragoon for my first ever black powder or flintlock. This seems like a good starter that I like to get me into the hobby before I buy anything genuine to shoot.

That said, they are going to sell me some flints for it and the flint leather. What are the other essentials I need to get started?

.62 cal balls - seems easy enough.
Cloth patches - now this numbs my mind; there are so many choices and opinions I've found. What would you gents/ladies suggest considering the exact pistol I'm buying?

I see that Goex recommends the 2F size powder for .58 cal+. Is this also OK for the pan or should I use a 3F in the pan?

What are the devices (flasks?) I decant the powder into out of the can that's used to measure and deliver the powder? I presume I need one for the specific F size powders? Like a 3F AND a 2F flask?

Anything I'm missing that's mandatory? I don't wish to get too much invested into this until I give it a try and see how much I enjoy it.

Oh and for us California people, how does this work shooting lead at an outdoor range; IE BLM land and whatever canyon I can find? Do I have to figure out a way to collect every ball I fire?

Thanks!

Alex

 

[Zonie]

So I'm going to buy a Loyalist Arms Elliot Light Dragoon for my first ever black powder or flintlock. This seems like a good starter that I like to get me into the hobby before I buy anything genuine to shoot.

That said, they are going to sell me some flints for it and the flint leather. What are the other essentials I need to get started?

.62 cal balls - seems easy enough.
Cloth patches - now this numbs my mind; there are so many choices and opinions I've found. What would you gents/ladies suggest considering the exact pistol I'm buying?
In a smooth bore, the patch is primarily there to keep the ball from moving off of the powder load. Its thickness will depend a lot on the size of the ball you end up getting and the size of the guns bore.
For a smooth bore pistol, I recommend a "snug" fit. Probably something about .010 thick.
The important thing to remember is the material needs to be either cotton or linen. The synthetic materials like nylon, rayon etc will melt when the powder ignites.

I see that Goex recommends the 2F size powder for .58 cal+. Is this also OK for the pan or should I use a 3F in the pan?
The 2Fg powder will work but you may have better luck with 3Fg.
3Fg will work in the barrel if you reduce the powder charge about 10 percent less than a 2Fg load would be and it (the 3Fg) powder will work great in the pan.

What are the devices (flasks?) I decant the powder into out of the can that's used to measure and deliver the powder? I presume I need one for the specific F size powders? Like a 3F AND a 2F flask?
No. Flasks and the measuring devices are not made for specific powder granulation's.
Although the volumes of 2Fg and 2Fg actually weigh a little different, it is not enough to be concerned about. A quarter of a cubic inch of 2Fg and 3Fg will actually weigh slightly different amounts but the power produced will be close enough to work.

You should try to get a brass, adjustable powder measure that measures from 0 to 60 or more grains of powder. That will cover anything your pistol will ever need. If it goes up to 100 grains, that will about cover any rifle or shotgun you get too.

Anything I'm missing that's mandatory? I don't wish to get too much invested into this until I give it a try and see how much I enjoy it.
You might want to buy a cloth 20 guage shotgun cleaning mop or plug. You can put your cleaning patches on it to swab the bore when your done shooting. Normally I would suggest using a brass cleaning jag for this but they are pretty bore sensitive. The shotgun plug will crush down a bit if it is too large.

Oh and for us California people, how does this work shooting lead at an outdoor range; IE BLM land and whatever canyon I can find? Do I have to figure out a way to collect every ball I fire?
As I understand it, the no lead areas are still confined to the places the Condors hang out. I might be wrong though.
You might want to call a local shooting range and ask them about the lead/no lead problem at their location.


Alex

 

[92GTA]

Thanks allot for the clarification!

Alex

 

[Grenadier1758]

You have mentioned that you wanted a 17th century pistol. Loyalist offers two flintlock versions on its site. The 1615-60's English (Jacobean) Lock or 1640's-1690's Doglock cost about the same as the Elliot Pistol. Have you considered either one of those?

Zonie has given good advice that I will second for whatever pistol you order.

 

[92GTA]

I have seen those but think I prefer to stick with just a plain flintlock rather than those styles of mechanism.

 

[TS12]

No lead for hunting in the condor zone (except rimfire) but lead for pinking is OK. So if you choose to target shoot on BLM land you are legal with lead. But if you choose to hunt anywhere in the condor zone you must be lead free.

Hope that helps.

The rational is that the condor eats carrion, so lead in a dead animal is poison to the condor. But lead in the ground is unlikely to be a risk to the condor. Lead in the water is of course not good.

I consider myself a keen conservationist, but always use lead for target shooting in the condor zone and have no concerns with it.

[Edited for clarity.]

 

[azmntman]

Has a study on the leathality of minute shrads of razor sharp copper in condor gizzards been done yet? :idunno: :hmm: :slap:

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Has a study on the leathality of minute shrads of razor sharp copper in condor gizzards been done yet? :idunno: :hmm: :slap:

That would be a tough one to conduct unless they euthanized a couple, which is... unlawful??

Finding them as freshkill for study would be hindered by the family of the fallen immediately cleaning up the mess! :wink:

 

[Darto]

92GTA, Yes in Calif, lead for target shooting and plinking is legal. Also under the coming new laws in a couple years in Calif., still legal, lead only prohibited for hunting.

So in hunting season, it might be a no-no to carry into the BLM hunting areas, not sure.

You don't have to put a patch around the ball if you don't want to. If you don't, then put a wad on top the ball to hold it against the powder, this is necessary for safety.

Wait to get the gun and measure the bore if you have access to calipers. Bore diameter can vary on Indian made guns. That way the round ball of correct size will be more obvious.

In Calif. it is a felony to posses more than 1 pound of true black powder. Up to 20 pounds of replica black powder is OK (777, Pyrodex,etc.).

So the one pound of true black might be fffG as it is very versatile size of grains. Especially since ffG is a bit course for a flintlock pan, fffG goes well in the pan and the main charge in the barrel.

 

[Darto]

It also gets complicated because replica black powder is harder to ignite than real BP in a flintlock (but not in a percussion gun). So real black is your best bet. I would definitely go fffG since it will be hard to have several types of real black powder in California legally.

 

[azmntman]

To save that real stuff just use a prime charge of 10 grains then the rest with 777 or pyrodex. So if charge is 70 gr, 10gr 3f followed by 60gr 777. Works well even in a flintlock.