My 2020 elk hunt

[Spikebuck]

Congrats, Ron. Beautiful animal.

Idaho must not have preference points given for every time you don't get drawn? Minnesota was like that when we had moose hunting. Someone could get drawn the first year while someone else could apply for a lifetime and never get drawn.

I am amazed that "only" 80 grs pushes a heavy bullet that far with that much authority. You definitely have the system! When guys on here ask about conicals and long range shooting, my first response is always "Contact Idaho Ron!" But of course it's much more than just the equipment...it takes a lot of practice and skill to make those kind of shots count under hunting pressure and after running around, etc. which is quite a bit different than shooting on paper from a bench. Not to mention the many, many hours you've devoted to development of those loads, making the bullets, etc. You certainly earn every animal you take with the "Hot Rod."

 

[fleener]

Think of how many bison were killed with a 45-70. Those cases certainly were not loaded with even 70 grains of powder.

80 grains is a good hefty load.

Fleener

 

[Dude]

bullet-- 458 gr paper patched lee 500 S&W bullet I make my self sized for my gun

Would you mind talking a little about your custom bullet? Or could you direct me to a link?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Think of how many bison were killed with a 45-70. Those cases certainly were not loaded with even 70 grains of powder.

80 grains is a good hefty load.

Fleener

The early cases were balloon head and easily held 70gn.
It can also be compressed near solid. So it becomes like 4f....oops what have I said now

 

[Eterry]

True, the old cases could and did hold 70grs of black. Ron has this down to a science. Very impressive Ron, as usual.

 

[Idaho Ron]

bullet-- 458 gr paper patched lee 500 S&W bullet I make my self sized for my gun

Would you mind talking a little about your custom bullet? Or could you direct me to a link?

My bullets are pretty easy to find on this forum. I started work with the Lee 500 S&W bullet over a dozen years ago.
Hornady stopped making the 410 gr 50 cal and I had a huge stockpile. Even though those were accurate I was starting to form an opinion that the bullets were not what I was wanting for hunting. After shooting a deer at 150 yards this 410 gr was only 350 grains. The bullet had lost 60 grains of weight. I was disappointed, and that was not the only one. Sorry for the bad picture.

I tried the typical muzzleloader bullets. The REAL, the Lyman plains, and others. I bought many molds and none of them matched the Hornady for accuracy.
I had read a great deal about Whitworth rifles and I knew about the paper patching. I decided that I needed to figure it out or try to find a better bullet.
The 500 S&W bullet was next.

I started with pure lead. They were a little less accurate than the Hornady bullets. But these had what the other bullets didn't have consistency.
After figuring out paper, and what bullet I needed to play with the powder. I started with 100 gr of select but quickly changed to Pyrodex P. Then I went down to 90, then 80. The 80 gr was accurate and consistent. Last I played with hardness. I bought a Cabine Tree tester and began to harden the bullets. I bumped it to 6 BHN, then 7 BHN until I got to about 9 BHN. I pour the bullets then wrap them with 9# onion skin. Then I run the bullet with the paper through a .501 sizer die.
Well at 9 BHN the bullets were too hard and the paper stripped off the bullet.

I had went too far. So I went back and visited the hardness between 6 and 7. On my tester it reads, .038 to .040

This hardness was tested with both accuracy, and consistency. I shot many into new paper and sand. They mushroomed perfectly and retained most of the weight.

Then I tried them on game.
This buck was the first animal killed with a Paper Patched Lee 500 S&W bullet.

The bullet at 150 yards blew right through the animal. I had never seen a pass though with the Hornady.
Then many more animals were falling to the 500 S&W bullet from my gun and my son.

The Lee 500 S&W bullet hardened to

This load has been the same since 2009. My sight in marks have been the same since 2009. The load and rifle combo just shoots where it is supposed to. The consistency is the thing that I like the most.
My son and I train out to 300 yards on a regular basis. We shoot off sticks and practice shooting up hill and down hill. We practice at 3000, foot elevation and 8000 foot elevation.

This load and gun spurred the building of my Hot Rod Hawken. It is a fast twist 45 that is built the same. it shoots a RCBS 11mm rifle bullet.

I have taken probably more game with it but that is another story.

 

[Dude]

Thanks Ron, for such a detailed answer. I'm new to BP guns, with an old (appears to have never been fired) TC 50 caliber Hawken. It looks like I could duplicate your bullet, with a Lee 500 S&W mold, but the varying hardness is beyond me.

Sounds like you guys have a lot of fun even just practicing.

I showed this thread to a friend who used to have black powder guns and he was angry anyone would attempt a humane kill at 248 yards. I can see he has no clue about your marksmanship. I'm truly impressed - as I'm sure others more knowledgeable are also.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Thanks Ron, for such a detailed answer. I'm new to BP guns, with an old (appears to have never been fired) TC 50 caliber Hawken. It looks like I could duplicate your bullet, with a Lee 500 S&W mold, but the varying hardness is beyond me.

Sounds like you guys have a lot of fun even just practicing.

I showed this thread to a friend who used to have black powder guns and he was angry anyone would attempt a humane kill at 248 yards. I can see he has no clue about your marksmanship. I'm truly impressed - as I'm sure others more knowledgeable are also.

A factory TC Hawken barrel won't stabilize a bullet like this one.

 

[Realwarrior]

Great hunt & Super shot. Congratulations

 

[toot]

that gun puts meat on the table!!

 

[Idaho Ron]

that gun puts meat on the table!!

That Hot Rod Renegade is a killer for sure.

 

[Dude]

A factory TC Hawken barrel won't stabilize a bullet like this one.

Ok - I didn't get that to begin with. So it's not only the slug is different, the barrel is also with 1:20 rifling. Mind telling me a little about that? There must be a story there - who made it, cost, difficulty...

If this story has already been told before, would you have a link? I'm curious what would be involved to duplicate your success.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Ok - I didn't get that to begin with. So it's not only the slug is different, the barrel is also with 1:20 rifling. Mind telling me a little about that? There must be a story there - who made it, cost, difficulty...

If this story has already been told before, would you have a link? I'm curious what would be involved to duplicate your success.

Lots on here from both Idaho Ron and Idaho Lewis about these rifles/loads. Do a search of their posts.
Walk

 

[Idaho Ron]

Ok - I didn't get that to begin with. So it's not only the slug is different, the barrel is also with 1:20 rifling. Mind telling me a little about that? There must be a story there - who made it, cost, difficulty...

If this story has already been told before, would you have a link? I'm curious what would be involved to duplicate your success.

The barrel is a Green Mountain stainless steel LRH. it has a 1-28 twist. Back a dozen years ago I bought several barrels for as little as 75 dollars. They bring hundreds of dollars now if you can find them.
I have set up several of these guns over the years. They have all shot very well.
Putting together the rifle is going to be expensive now, but not impossible. I have seen a few that guys have built like mine for same but again they bring a lot of money. The paper is tough to find. I use 25% cotton onion paper. It is still out there but harder to find. You can easily find 100% wood pulp onion skin. I have shot that paper and it shoots just fine.
There is a lot of info on that like was said. If you have questions feel free to ask.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Congrats, Ron. Beautiful animal.

Idaho must not have preference points given for every time you don't get drawn? Minnesota was like that when we had moose hunting. Someone could get drawn the first year while someone else could apply for a lifetime and never get drawn.

I am amazed that "only" 80 grs pushes a heavy bullet that far with that much authority. You definitely have the system! When guys on here ask about conicals and long range shooting, my first response is always "Contact Idaho Ron!" But of course it's much more than just the equipment...it takes a lot of practice and skill to make those kind of shots count under hunting pressure and after running around, etc. which is quite a bit different than shooting on paper from a bench. Not to mention the many, many hours you've devoted to development of those loads, making the bullets, etc. You certainly earn every animal you take with the "Hot Rod."

We don't have a points system in Idaho.
Thanks for the kind words. This hunt was a long time coming I was just glad I was able to get he chance at a bull.
It was very satisfying hunt. I put the rifle together, built the sticks, made the bullets. I built the knives I used. It was very satisfying.
This was one of the knives.

This was the other set I made and used on this hunt

 

[Spikebuck]

...I built the knives I used.

Our taste in knives must run close to the same. I've never had much use for long blades whether working on squirrels or big game.

I grew up doing a lot of fur trapping with my dad and the Schrade Improved Muskrat was always our knife of choice...relatively small thin blades (two exactly the same). Didn't have to stop and sharpen in the middle of skinning chores with two blades...just kept on going with the second blade. Didn't really use another knife for hunting until a good friend of mine unexpectedly sent me a hand-forged knife he made for me. He said he forged it out of a '69 GTO coil spring. Takes an edge and holds it well. Small for easy carrying. No scale in the picture below, but the blade is 3.5". I've used this one exclusively for big game chores for years now.