My first 58cal, a Zouave.

[HardBall]

I procured a new-to-me Armi Sport Zouave rifle intending to use it as a .58-cal round ball rifle with the occasional minnie. It was delivered a few days ago.

The nipple is positioned so close to the breech/snail area that I had to modify a nipple wrench to fit. Once done, I was able to remove the nipple and clean a bunch of crud out of the channel which had plugged the breech. To my surprise and delight there was no rust, just black crud. I guess the PO had been unable to remove the nipple for a proper cleaning, nor did he know how to thoroughly clean the breech area via the muzzle. I guess he was able to soak enough oil into the breech to prevent rusting?

With my new, clean Zouave I went to the range today with the only .58 balls I could find, .570 Speer swaged balls. .018" ticking was too tight a fit, I had to tap the loading rod all the way down with a mallet so I quickly switched to the only thinner patching I had, .015" Ox-Yoke prelubed. This combo fit just a little too loose but it was the best I could do.

I was thrilled to find that only 40gr of Goex 2F was needed for a cloverleaf producing plinking load with the somewhat loose fitting .570" patch/ball combo. A slightly tighter cloverleaf was achieved with 80gr of 2F and the same .015" / .570" combo.

Despite cut and/or blown patches, crude sights and a heavy trigger pull this rifle still shot very well and produced high velocity per charge, for a .58 cal.

I've got some .562" cast balls on order that I'll try with thicker pillow-ticking and the liquid patch lubes that have proven so successful in my Lyman .50 GPR.

The big .58 is a veritable blast to shoot too :hatsoff:

 

[Big John]

Shot my euroarms zouave to also, alot of fun!

 

[Wes/Tex]

The Zouaveis an excellent toy for casual shooting. It's about the oldest replica gun now in production. Back in the late 50's or early 60's when they first came out we tried to get it to shoot balls with mixed results. The problem was that the rifling was designed for Minie balls with it's three wide lands & grooves that were cut shallow to work with expanding base projectile. Back then the only balls available were .562" and we ended up using blue jean material to shoot with. The results were O.K. when we finally realized light loads like yours were the ticket. Actually, this is where the 1-48" twist got a bad rap, though it was no fault of that twist rate. The problem was shallow, side lands & grooves and undersized balls. After Lyman and others started making .570" balls available things got much better, much quicker! :thumbsup:

 

[RedFeather]

I have a circa 1973 Zoli that I purchased from Navy Arms - my first rifle. I've never taken the time to check the twist, but have read that most of those three-groove guns are about 1:72. Maybe that's why they shoot RB's better than Minies?

 

[Trot]

I would not say they shoot round balls better than minies. The rifling and twist rate were designed for minie balls and shoot them very well.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Actually, I'd say the twist is better for round balls and marginal for minies, the three lands and very shallow grooves are better for minies and not so good with patched balls. Niether fish not fowl.
The one I had many years ago would put a very tightly patched ball, probably blue jean patching, into 4" at 100 yards with peep rear sight. I never could get minies to do that well at half the distance. But, I was casting from a Lee mold that was quite a bit under bore size, maybe a bore size minie would have done better.
I later got a beautiful Parker Hale two band with 5 grooves, one in 48 twist, and that shot 3" at 100 with the same minies the Zouave wouldn't group, probably they just fit the tighter bore better, but also the PH was a much higher quality gun all around. It also shot patched balls fine with plinking loads.

 

My Zoli Zouave wouldn't keep any of 4 different style Minies in 6 inches at 25 yards, no matter the powder charge. It clover leafs .570 RB's at the same distance. Needless to say I won't order a Minie mold.

Vic

 

[dlocke]

My Zoli Zouave shoots like manure too. I can't even hit a piece of paper at 40 yards. I have minies sized down to fit well in my 1861 ArmiSport Springfield and they rattle down the bore of the Zouave. I'm gonna try some minies the size they drop out of the mold and see if that helps. If not, I'm going with patched balls.
DJL

 

[arquebus]

The secret for any decent level of accuracy with Minies is to have them just a hair under bore size. My mould casts a .582" diameter bullet & then I have different sizing dies for each of my rifle-muskets. I bought one of the Rapine bullet sizers that uses a simple cylindrical die that the minie is pushed, nose first, through from the top, works great. If you have access to a lathe making various size dies would be no problem & you could even use a drill press for sizing by putting a dowel in the chuck & push the minies through the die. Alternately, you could buy some 7/8"x14 threaded rod to make the dies from & they would screw into a reloading press & then push the minies through using a punch in the press's ram.
My Zouave is a Euroarms (Zoli) that was made in the late 90s, good quality & very accurate.....3-4" groups consistently at 100yds shot prone with sling. Fifty-five grains of Goex 3Fg, 612gn (sized to .579") Minie, lubed with SPG, about 20gns of Malt O Meal over powder, & an RWS musket cap.

 

[Trot]

Thanks Arquebus. The bad rap that minies get is always either due to a bullet that is too small, or not made of pure lead. These rifles are designed to shoot minies, and do it very well when you find the right one. The biggest problem is dthat you can take two identical rifles by the same manufacturer, and they can be quite different in bore size. It is important to have a minie that is no more than .002 under bore size. Minies are nothing like standard conicals that require a fast twist to stabilize. Original Springfield and Enfield rifle muskets had somewhere around 1 in 70" twist, as do the top match grade rifle musket barrels made today for competition shooting. The short barreled 2 band rifles usually have a faster twist to compensate for the shorter barrel.

 

[HardBall]

The secret for any decent level of accuracy with Minies is to have them just a hair under bore size. My mould casts a .582" diameter bullet & then I have different sizing dies for each of my rifle-muskets.

The only minie that I'm interested in is Lyman's 213os (Old Style) which is supposed to drop as-cast at .575". How are you guys getting as-cast minies of .582"?

 

[arquebus]

Rapine makes some oversize Minie moulds as do some other makers. I know that RCBS makes their North-South line of Minie moulds in various diameters: .576" (#82160), .578" (#82161), .580" (#82162), & .584" (#82164). Lyman, too makes one very similar called a Blue-Grey Minie that is .578" (#578675). My moulds came from Australia & where made by a guy by the name of Trevor Bugg (sadly, recently deceased), who was a well known blackpowder shooter down there. However, his equipment was purchased by another friend of mine there & he will be continuing to make moulds, though production isn't up to speed yet as he is only doing it as a part-time venture to date. Personally, I would recommend getting one a couple of sizes too big & then sizing them down to suit individual rifles.....very few moulds will ever throw a truly round bullet anyway & sizing helps make them more uniform. In my Rifle-Musket competitions we are not allowed to wipe the bore between shots (13) & I can load all of them with only very light pressure on the ramrod. Unless it's very cold weather the weight of the rod alone will carry the Minie almost all the way down, & this is with a Minie only .002" smaller than the bore!

 

[omgb]

Mine likes the target minie from Lee. Anything else and I might as well have Stevie Wonder pitching fast balls left handed.