My first Flint Lock rifle musket A Charleville 1766 Pedersoli

[FlinterNick]

Never would have guessed that. I haven’t seen a Pedersoli bore in a long while. I always thought they were high grit polished inside and out.

 

[PluggedNickel]

That makes more sense. When I think about a chrome barrel, I say lined if it is inside and plated on the outside.

Yes, chrome lined seems proper if internal. Agreed

 

[PluggedNickel]

My Beretta A303, long gone sadly, had a chrome lined barrel. It was not bright and shinny as in chrome plating on a car bumper, rather a matte silver. Kind of like unpolished platinum. It was very easy to clean, and one of the very few smooth bores I did not polish.

 

[PluggedNickel]

I have finally gotten a-round-to-it! Been bitter cold and we are hunkered down here. I swabbed the bore well with WD40, then dry patched. Nice and clean now. There was a bit of burned, un-burnt powder from a spark test I believe. The fizzen has been struck once for sure. I checked the main spring on my bathroom scale it adds 12 pounds to full cock. Less than I anticipated. I haven't broke the lock down yet, but will. Some judicious polishing may reduce main spring pull a bit more. Frizzen spring checked at about 5 pounds, a bit heavy, I can polish that as well, but may need to reduce it more. I will check it with digital trigger gauge for a more accurate reading. I haven't measured trigger pull, but it feels great to me. Will do that as well.
I may just clean, polish, and lube the lock. Then give it a test fire and see how it shoots. If it ain't broke don't fix it school of thought. Ideally main spring should be about 10 pounds, from what I've read, and frizzen about 3 pounds. It's not far off the mark now. I have used militec-1 on trigger groups before, and it alone has reduced trigger pull. Polishing and then treatment makes a huge difference on BP revolvers trigger, hammer, sear action. Ditto the main springs!
I read some where that reproductions sometimes have 40-50 pound main springs. I was expecting mine to be much higher, a pleasant surprise it wasn't! Not so concerned about flints getting shattered, chipped from too heavy a spring, and or frizzen wear, damage now.
I have decided that we will take a trip up to Lodi, Ohio to The Log Cabin Store. It is about 1.75 hour drive, but I want to pick up some swagged round balls in .675" for shooting with tow holding in bore. .645" and .625" for patched, or paper cartridge. Maybe even some .600". Also, I want to get an October Country small possibles bag. The web site shows a very plain Jane, one that is 8"X9" or something like that. I will look at what is available when we get there. I may get some 1f powder as well. Several members swear by it in their Bessies, and Charleville's or other large bore long barreled muskets.
I had purchased .69 caliber tapered button cleaning jag from Buffalo Arms Co., it worked perfect with folded paper towels, and .018" Ox-Yoke patch. I also purchased a couple of .69 caliber bore brushes, and a .625" brush to wrap tow around, or patching if bore is really fouled.
I am very pleased with this piece so far. I was told the stock would need modification, it doesn't to my eye and cheek. Drop is perfection for me! The main spring would be a monster, it's not. Frizzen spring would be way too heavy, it is just a couple pounds. It could be some of this was based on someones experience with a David Pedersoli Charleville from back when. I can't say, but if so, Pedersoli has been listening to it's customers, and made some changes. I'm glad I paid the admission price for the Pedersoli. Thanks to my wife Betty for telling me to get the one that didn't need me to rebuild it!
Thanks to all who have offered advice, especially Grenadier1758, Britsmoothie, LoyalistDave, Rat, Stumpkiller, Cowboy, and all the others who have assisted me in my quest for shooting my first Flintlock Smoothie!
I posted some pictures finally on the Photo thread.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...rsoli-my-first-flintlock-and-smoothie.112778/

I will keep you all posted on progress. I may take some pictures of lock tuning work, if needed. And an update of trigger pull, frizzen spring with digital gauge.

 

[FlinterNick]

I have finally gotten a-round-to-it! Been bitter cold and we are hunkered down here. I swabbed the bore well with WD40, then dry patched. Nice and clean now. There was a bit of burned, un-burnt powder from a spark test I believe. The fizzen has been struck once for sure. I checked the main spring on my bathroom scale it adds 12 pounds to full cock. Less than I anticipated. I haven't broke the lock down yet, but will. Some judicious polishing may reduce main spring pull a bit more. Frizzen spring checked at about 5 pounds, a bit heavy, I can polish that as well, but may need to reduce it more. I will check it with digital trigger gauge for a more accurate reading. I haven't measured trigger pull, but it feels great to me. Will do that as well.
I may just clean, polish, and lube the lock. Then give it a test fire and see how it shoots. If it ain't broke don't fix it school of thought. Ideally main spring should be about 10 pounds, from what I've read, and frizzen about 3 pounds. It's not far off the mark now. I have used militec-1 on trigger groups before, and it alone has reduced trigger pull. Polishing and then treatment makes a huge difference on BP revolvers trigger, hammer, sear action. Ditto the main springs!
I read some where that reproductions sometimes have 40-50 pound main springs. I was expecting mine to be much higher, a pleasant surprise it wasn't! Not so concerned about flints getting shattered, chipped from too heavy a spring, and or frizzen wear, damage now.
I have decided that we will take a trip up to Lodi, Ohio to The Log Cabin Store. It is about 1.75 hour drive, but I want to pick up some swagged round balls in .675" for shooting with tow holding in bore. .645" and .625" for patched, or paper cartridge. Maybe even some .600". Also, I want to get an October Country small possibles bag. The web site shows a very plain Jane, one that is 8"X9" or something like that. I will look at what is available when we get there. I may get some 1f powder as well. Several members swear by it in their Bessies, and Charleville's or other large bore long barreled muskets.
I had purchased .69 caliber tapered button cleaning jag from Buffalo Arms Co., it worked perfect with folded paper towels, and .018" Ox-Yoke patch. I also purchased a couple of .69 caliber bore brushes, and a .625" brush to wrap tow around, or patching if bore is really fouled.
I am very pleased with this piece so far. I was told the stock would need modification, it doesn't to my eye and cheek. Drop is perfection for me! The main spring would be a monster, it's not. Frizzen spring would be way too heavy, it is just a couple pounds. It could be some of this was based on someones experience with a David Pedersoli Charleville from back when. I can't say, but if so, Pedersoli has been listening to it's customers, and made some changes. I'm glad I paid the admission price for the Pedersoli. Thanks to my wife Betty for telling me to get the one that didn't need me to rebuild it!
Thanks to all who have offered advice, especially Grenadier1758, Britsmoothie, LoyalistDave, Rat, Stumpkiller, Cowboy, and all the others who have assisted me in my quest for shooting my first Flintlock Smoothie!
I posted some pictures finally on the Photo thread.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...rsoli-my-first-flintlock-and-smoothie.112778/

I will keep you all posted on progress. I may take some pictures of lock tuning work, if needed. And an update of trigger pull, frizzen spring with digital gauge.

Regarding the stock; the comb is higher than the original 1766 patterns as it is based on the 1763 heavy charleville pattern; the comb height can interfere with aiming; many reinactors have the comb reduced because most of 1763 heavy charlevills were recalled and modified almost as soon as soon as they were produced.

Not sure why Pedersoli reproduced the 1766 stock this way; it really does the reinactor market no justice.

Regardless; it’s a fine musket, just not the most authentic 1766 pattern; navy arms and Dixie sold a miruko charleville which is a very fine repro. I have a navy arms charleville; it’s my fav peice.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Regarding the stock; the comb is higher than the original 1766 patterns as it is based on the 1763 heavy charleville pattern; the comb height can interfere with aiming; many reinactors have the comb reduced because most of 1763 heavy charlevills were recalled and modified almost as soon as soon as they were produced.

Not sure why Pedersoli reproduced the 1766 stock this way; it really does the reinactor market no justice.

Regardless; it’s a fine musket, just not the most authentic 1766 pattern; navy arms and Dixie sold a miruko charleville which is a very fine repro. I have a navy arms charleville; it’s my fav peice.

Interesting. Thanks for clarification. I've heard the Miruko's are excellent. Dixie had one for sale in the catalog early last year, but it sold fast. The comb works very well for me. Maybe I've got high cheek bones or, just thin cheeks these days, or I've got a long pencil neck LOL! The comb is rather sharp towards the front where it drops down, even further back it is somewhat wedged shaped and thinner than most. That might add to the "Thumper" reputation some give it.
That may well explain why Pedersoli and the sellers list it as a 1763 Leger-1766 Charleville, meaning not that they were the same or very similar as I had thought, but that this musket is some what of a ******* of the two, merged together. Why they did that, who knows. The 1777 is an improvement, but came too late for AWI, for the most part. Not really HC I think. I like the looks of this musket, even if it is a bit of an Odd/Ugly Duck so to speak. Beauty in the eye of the beholder maybe.

I think I read in an earlier post one of the members said the true 1766 was 1.5 pounds lighter than the 1763 Leger. Wrist was thinner as well. Well I like mine anyway, and, Arrrrr the better to bludgeon with mates!

I'm glad I'm happy with mine. I'd hate to have to take a surform and sandpaper to a brand new stock!

 

[FlinterNick]

Interesting. Thanks for clarification. I've heard the Miruko's are excellent. Dixie had one for sale in the catalog early last year, but it sold fast. The comb works very well for me. Maybe I've got high cheek bones or, just thin cheeks these days, or I've got a long pencil neck LOL! The comb is rather sharp towards the front where it drops down, even further back it is somewhat wedged shaped and thinner than most. That might add to the "Thumper" reputation some give it.

I'm glad I'm happy with mine. I'd hate to have to take a surform and sandpaper to a brand new stock!

Dave at Lodgewood Arms does a great defarb job on the stock for only $200; he adds a rear band spring too. All that is done to the butt is to reduce the joining of comb and wrist by about 1/4 downward. The Rifle Shoppe actually reproduced the stock as modified. Their repro charlevills are very nicely done however the work is something to be said for; you’ll need a good skill set to work one of those kits. I’ve used their parts on my miruko charleville.

 

[FlinterNick]

Interesting. Thanks for clarification. I've heard the Miruko's are excellent. Dixie had one for sale in the catalog early last year, but it sold fast. The comb works very well for me. Maybe I've got high cheek bones or, just thin cheeks these days, or I've got a long pencil neck LOL! The comb is rather sharp towards the front where it drops down, even further back it is somewhat wedged shaped and thinner than most. That might add to the "Thumper" reputation some give it.

I'm glad I'm happy with mine. I'd hate to have to take a surform and sandpaper to a brand new stock!

Regarding the lock; I would just flex test it with useage. The Pedersoli locks are not known have the strongest springs; I’ve had to replace 2-3 over the years.

Shouldn’t really need any tuning too; the internals are hardened and tempered much better than most other repros I’ve seen and there really isn’t much to rework other than possibly adjusting the flint to a good position so it’s not smashed up.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Dave at Lodgewood Arms does a great defarb job on the stock for only $200; he adds a rear band spring too. All that is done to the butt is to reduce the joining of comb and wrist by about 1/4 downward. The Rifle Shoppe actually reproduced the stock as modified. Their repro charlevills are very nicely done however the work is something to be said for; you’ll need a good skill set to work one of those kits. I’ve used their parts on my miruko charleville.

Thanks for the additional info FN! Now I remember why I'm following you!

 

[FlinterNick]

Here are my two 1990’s Miruko muskets from Navy Arms Inc. The top is a Brown Bess with a 42 inch barrel, they call it a short land but many of its features are long land.

The Charlevlle is very similar to the 1766 light 1763. The only real difference is that the stock on the original 1766 had slightly more drop in the butt and the wrist was smaller.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing. Too bad Miruko doesn’t make them anymore. On the other hand, they are greatly desired, which means the price for a used one will only go up! Is that a maple stock on the Miruko? It is awesome!

 

[FlinterNick]

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing. Too bad Miruko doesn’t make them anymore. On the other hand, they are greatly desired, which means the price for a used one will only go up! Is that a maple stock on the Miruko? It is awesome!

The Charleville is an American Walnut; the Brown Bess is a Cherry Stock.

Miruko was known for making very good working muskets, however they did cut costs on the stocks. The stocks are not the best cuts of wood. the Charleville is a 2 piece stock which I've had to epoxy in the past for splits in the channel, hardly noticeable unless you unseat the barrel.

Pedersoli has Miruko beat by a mile on the stock wood grade. Pedersoli Stocks are dense and finished very well.

 

[PluggedNickel]

The Charleville is an American Walnut; the Brown Bess is a Cherry Stock.

Miruko was known for making very good working muskets, however they did cut costs on the stocks. The stocks are not the best cuts of wood. the Charleville is a 2 piece stock which I've had to epoxy in the past for splits in the channel, hardly noticeable unless you unseat the barrel.

Pedersoli has Miruko beat by a mile on the stock wood grade. Pedersoli Stocks are dense and finished very well.

Sorry to hear that about the wood on the Mirukos. The wood is pretty though. I knew Pedersoli stocks were walnut, but I did not know American Walnut. Not HC, but still great wood huh? Do you unseat the barrels often? I was thinking of taking mine down to wax the barrel channel and barrel, before gunk, crud, BP residue gets to the wood. What say you?
Looking at that picture of the 1763 that comb seems to be even higher and more Roman Nosed than mine! I've also read of them referred to as calf foot/leg.
IIRC India made Charlevilles have a two piece stock as well. That is probably not HC either.
Great Book BTW!

 

[FlinterNick]

I don't unseat mine often. Only when I want to do a deep clean.

I coated mine with brownies bedding compound. Its pretty durable stuff, makes the barrel to stock fit much tighter.

The Charleville can be unseated more often than the Bess, the Bess I don't usually mess with because drifting the pins can cause the lugs and wood to erode.

Two piece stocks for Charleville and Springfields are very common, I wouldn't call it low quality. These guns were made in a way that would have the forearm replaced eventually. Many civil war era muskets had their forearms replaced in the field from cracks, and wear. One of the reasons I favor the Charleville over the Bess is that it can be serviced pretty easily, wood breaks replace forearm with new forearm and its easily concealed by the barrel bands.

The 1763 original pattern had a huge comb with the initial production, it was reduced rather quickly as it was determined in drill that the musket was almost impossible to shoulder and aim. The original 1763 pattern also had a unique feature in that the upper band had a rammer guide that extended to the middle band, most originals are not found with this still attached as it was determined to be pretty useless.

Pedersoli's barrels are pretty close to the original. The original 1763 barrel was very thick from breech to muzzle. The barrel weighed almost 6 lbs on its own.

Ironically the French would make their 1774 & 1777 muskets heavier again, almost at 10 lbs.

 

[PluggedNickel]

I don't unseat mine often. Only when I want to do a deep clean.

I coated mine with brownies bedding compound. Its pretty durable stuff, makes the barrel to stock fit much tighter.

The Charleville can be unseated more often than the Bess, the Bess I don't usually mess with because drifting the pins can cause the lugs and wood to erode.

Two piece stocks for Charleville and Springfields are very common, I wouldn't call it low quality. These guns were made in a way that would have the forearm replaced eventually. Many civil war era muskets had their forearms replaced in the field from cracks, and wear. One of the reasons I favor the Charleville over the Bess is that it can be serviced pretty easily, wood breaks replace forearm with new forearm and its easily concealed by the barrel bands.

The 1763 original pattern had a huge comb with the initial production, it was reduced rather quickly as it was determined in drill that the musket was almost impossible to shoulder and aim. The original 1763 pattern also had a unique feature in that the upper band had a rammer guide that extended to the middle band, most originals are not found with this still attached as it was determined to be pretty useless.

Pedersoli's barrels are pretty close to the original. The original 1763 barrel was very thick from breech to muzzle. The barrel weighed almost 6 lbs on its own.

Ironically the French would make their 1774 & 1777 muskets heavier again, almost at 10 lbs.

Military armorers and brass probably, the better to bludgeon with I guess. My Euroarms Springfield may have a two piece stock. I don't know, if so it is hidden by barrel band. That brownies bedding, accroglass may be just the ticket. No worries after that for sure.

 

[FlinterNick]

Military armorers and brass probably, the better to bludgeon with I guess. My Euroarms Springfield may have a two piece stock. I don't know, if so it is hidden by barrel band. That brownies bedding, accroglass may be just the ticket. No worries after that for sure.

The French wanted their muskets to have a long useful life which meant sending them back for upgrades until they were depleted. One key feature is the rammer spoons on the 66; many 66 patterns had the rear bands replaced to accept a tiny rammer spring riveted to it; this was a poor design and not practical. Some had the button rammers replaced with thicker trumpeted rammers etc. most French barrels were designed heavy making them strong candidates for rifling. Most 1766’s had rear barrel band spring fitted after 1770. Some Indian manufactures call it a 1768 which is not a real pattern.

1763/66 patterns were used almost through the war of 1812 by the Americans and irregular troops. Many of the 1763/66 were also popular on the frontiers in various Native American wars.

 

[Mark C J]

Great information to digest. I bought Pdesoli from Dixie Gun Works. It came tonight, they are closed. I do not know how to disassemble it to work the stock. Not in a rush, just not sure of what to do. No directions came with the Charleville, It came assembled but unfinished which is perfect for me to work on. Any idea where I can get a manual to take it apart etc.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Just place lock on half cock, remove the side nails and wiggle the lock out.
When replacing, make sure the trigger is forward as you put lock in.
The rest is self explanatory.

 

[Rob M.]

So these are rifled??

I don't think I've seen a rifled Charelville.

Best,
Pukka.

Beat me to it ....I was wondering when multi folks were referring to it as a rifle ...

 

[Mark C J]

Beat me to it ....I was wondering when multi folks were referring to it as a rifle ...

It's not rifled. The kit was shipped put together. Actually made sense as all parts fit