My first flintlock

[smarti]

I recently purchased this from a friend who was moving. He inherited it from a friend and knew little about it, although he did have a local gunsmith look at it who guesstimated the date about 1800. I subsequently have been told that it not US made, possibly Arabic. The lock was called a "crude dog" type lock. There are no markings on the gun, except an X in a box at the rear end where the metal butts into the stock. I would really like to know more about it, if I can. Online research hasn't yielded much, so I am hoping the members here can assist me? If more pictures are needed, please let me know. Thank you in advance.

Scott

 

[smarti]

A little more info. I was told that it is a .69 caliber (I think) and it has straight rifing in the barrel. It is 62" long tip to tail.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Interesting? I am waiting to see if any one knows about it.

 

[hanshi]

If I were to hazzard a guess I'd say your friend is probably correct. That is a very interesting gun, smarti.

 

[Flintlock]

Middle Eastern, North African I would think, The workmanship looks very nice, love the lock.

 

[smarti]

Any recommendations of other resources I can tap to seek more details about origin and date?

Thank you.

Scott

 

[Erwan]

It looks a bit like an old Spanish, Arab or Caucasian carabiner...
Maybe more Caucasian for the lock and the wood.
The flinters for "fantasia" are made of pieces of all origins and mostly with Spanish "miquelet" locks...

 

[frankie]

I recently purchased this from a friend who was moving. He inherited it from a friend and knew little about it, although he did have a local gunsmith look at it who guesstimated the date about 1800. I subsequently have been told that it not US made, possibly Arabic. The lock was called a "crude dog" type lock. There are no markings on the gun, except an X in a box at the rear end where the metal butts into the stock. I would really like to know more about it, if I can. Online research hasn't yielded much, so I am hoping the members here can assist me? If more pictures are needed, please let me know. Thank you in advance.

Scott

View attachment 131132View attachment 131133

Just when I think I've seen everything. I found out I havent. Awesome

 

[smarti]

Have any of you ever used one of the online antique gun appraisal services? If so, how was the experience? Seems most of them charge around $25 a gun, which I am willing to pay if I can get some more details on age, origin, and value.

Thanks.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Post a picture here on the Forum and get a better appraisal for free. Do post the forum for antique firearms. Actually several photographs.

 

[TreeMan]

Well ya don’t see one of those every day! Matter of fact I’ve never seen one!! Cool….

 

[smarti]

Post a picture here on the Forum and get a better appraisal for free. Do post the forum for antique firearms. Actually several photographs.

Grenadier,

Do you mean another place on this forum or another forum entirely? Thank you for the advice.

Scott

 

[Grenadier1758]

@smarti, within this Forum of Firearms Topics, there is a Forum topic of Firearms Identification. Members with a lot of experience frequent that Forum and offer very good advice. You can see if @rickystl might give an opinion. He is well versed on Arabic firearms and often provides insight on these middle eastern firearms.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The stock and design look either Turkish or from the Caucasus. It is not Arab, North African, or Balkan. It is likely from the late 18th and early 19th centuries.

dave

 

[smarti]

@smarti, within this Forum of Firearms Topics, there is a Forum topic of Firearms Identification. Members with a lot of experience frequent that Forum and offer very good advice. You can see if @rickystl might give an opinion. He is well versed on Arabic firearms and often provides insight on these middle eastern firearms.

Will do. Thank you.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Smarti

I received a pop-up on my email ref your Thread here. As Grenadier mentioned, ask the Moderator if he can move your Thread to the "Firearms Identification" section of this Forum. You will likely get more responses, especially with more photos.

Anyway, your rifle is Caucasian. Possibly made in Dagestan or one of the other gun making centers in the region. The rifle could have been made anywhere from about 1800 to 1870, as flintlocks were still in wide use in this region through at least the 3rd Quarter of the 19th Century. The butt stock and forearm were often both made in two-pieces. Usually of Circassian walnut. Every rifle I've seen has a Damascus barrel that is rifled. Either straight or twist. Though I suppose smooth bore barrels were used, I've never seen one. Their pistol barrels were always smooth bore. The lock is referred to as a miquelet style lock. Generally meaning the mainspring is positioned on the outside of the lock plate versus inside like the typical French style flintlock. The lock on your gun is the most common seen on these guns. Stylistically, it's of Persian origin. An interesting feature of these guns: With the exception of an occasional small decoration, I've never seen one of these guns with brass mounts. It's always iron or silver. The guns were made using a button style trigger, and made without a trigger guard. Caucasian weapons of any kind usually bring a premium at auctions. They are often loosely called "Cossack" guns. Hope this helps.

Here is a display of the same type gun - with some other accessories.

Rick

 

[smarti]

Rick,

Thank you very much for the comprehensive identification and history. I very much appreciate it.

What should I focus the additional picture on for posting in the other forum section? I really don't want to remove it from the mounting if I can avoid it, but will do what I have to to provide the experts what they need to evaluate it. I wondered why it didn't have a trigger guard and only a "nub" for the trigger? Now I know.

That is an amazing display, despite the fact that I have little knowledge of what all is included.

Thanks again.

Scott

 

[morehops52]

Hi Smarti

I received a pop-up on my email ref your Thread here. As Grenadier mentioned, ask the Moderator if he can move your Thread to the "Firearms Identification" section of this Forum. You will likely get more responses, especially with more photos.

Anyway, your rifle is Caucasian. Possibly made in Dagestan or one of the other gun making centers in the region. The rifle could have been made anywhere from about 1800 to 1870, as flintlocks were still in wide use in this region through at least the 3rd Quarter of the 19th Century. The butt stock and forearm were often both made in two-pieces. Usually of Circassian walnut. Every rifle I've seen has a Damascus barrel that is rifled. Either straight or twist. Though I suppose smooth bore barrels were used, I've never seen one. Their pistol barrels were always smooth bore. The lock is referred to as a miquelet style lock. Generally meaning the mainspring is positioned on the outside of the lock plate versus inside like the typical French style flintlock. The lock on your gun is the most common seen on these guns. Stylistically, it's of Persian origin. An interesting feature of these guns: With the exception of an occasional small decoration, I've never seen one of these guns with brass mounts. It's always iron or silver. The guns were made using a button style trigger, and made without a trigger guard. Caucasian weapons of any kind usually bring a premium at auctions. They are often loosely called "Cossack" guns. Hope this helps.

Here is a display of the same type gun - with some other accessories.

RickView attachment 132010

Well done!

 

[hanshi]

Never seen one in the flesh but have seen a photo or two of similar ones. Nice!