My First Muzzleloader

[Dai]

Hello to all in this forum,

I have just purchased at auction my first muzzleloader. An Antonio Zoli .58 Zouave.

Heres the problem. I am a complete novice in this field of shooting and need help and advice. What now?
I have some RWS caps (top hat style) and they dont fit. My caps for the remington revolvers are too small, is there a size I dont know about. Where can I get moulds from, i.e. makers name. This rifle has a 1:48 twist so what sort of bullet should I be looking at ball or minnie. Powder loads. Essential tools and non essential.

Point me in the right directions please

Dai

 

Sai: The Zouave is a replica of the 1863 ( I think) Remington service rifle that never saw service in the Civil War. It's made to shoot the Minie Ball which is really a bullet with a hollow base.
As for ignition it should take the musket caps. If your musket caps are too large and the caps for the revolver too small then i can only guess that your rifle takes a #11 cap.
Currently there are only three caps that are made today, the #10 for revolvers, though many revolvers today take the #11, then #11 for most percussion nipples and the musket cap which should fit your rifle.
If you want to cast your own and are a novice I'd suggest the Lee Minie bullet mold at under 20 bucks.
You will need a vessel in which to melt lead, a simple cast iron pot, and a lead dipper. That is your least expensive route.
You will need powder, 2fg in black or some Pyrodex (yeeeech!) or even worse some 777 in 2fg.
Start with 50 or 60 grains of either. You do not want 3fg or Pyrodex "P". Do not exceed 100 grains.
These military muskets used a service load of about 60 grains.
You need something to put powder in, a flask, and an adjustable powder measure.
You can find all of these items on line.
The FIRST thing you need to do is what you just did.
ASK QUESTIONS!
The next thing you need to do is buy a good black powder handbook.
Author Sam Fadala has a couple handbooks currently in print and available at any good book store ( or on line) for around 20 bucks and it will be the best 20 bucks you could spend.
If I missed anything I'm sure others will point out anything else for you.
And WELCOME! :applause:

 

[Rocky Johnson]

Sai you sure picked a big one to start with.You will get lots of help on this fourm. A couple of safty tips. Never pore powder down the barrel from the flask use a measure and make sure that the projectile is seated against the powder. If you are going to hunt with it, it should be big enough for anything in North America. Rocky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[squirejohn]

Sai

I don't recall ever seeing any #11 caps in local gun shops. The easiest solution would be to replace the nipple with one that takes the musket caps. My brother-in-law needed to do this with his Zouave - had the same problem with cap size.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Really, Squire? Does Vermont have some kind of law against the #11 cap? Surely there must be #11 caps availabe somewhere around you??? Have you tried Wal-Mart? They're like #11 caps, they're everywhere.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Welcome Sai,

Here's a link to a site that has a general overview of shooting a muzzleloader (From the NMLRA - who hereafter I am boycotting because they are having an ATV main prize in their membership drive).

http://www.nmlra.org/Article1.htm

Here is a site I came across specific to shooting a Civil War 'style' musket. It seems to be well thought out.

http://cwsutler.hypermart.net/ShotLoad.html

Patched balls are easier to cast or prepare and cheaper to buy, but Minnies are easier to load (if you carry them pre-lubed in a tin or go to the trouble of rolling them in paper cartridges. The Minnies would also be the authentic fodder for your rifle, if you care about such things.

Here's a link to instructions on how to make paper cartridges (my Daddy called them "squibs").

http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/papermake.htm

I'm not familiar with Zoli (or the Zouave, really) but it should take the RWS musket caps. Is the nipple 0.25" wide at the top or closer to 0.18"?

#11 caps are all I ever CAN find locally.

 

[Deadeye]

Doesn't your Zoave have a patchbox? Look inside, the Zoli usually came with 2 nipples, one for #11 amd one for musket.
The second one screwed into a hole inside the patchbox.

 

First of all, welcome - I am slightly surprised by the 48" twist. This is what the two band and 24" Enfields had. Most Zouaves of my aquaintance had 72" twist with three grouves and shot round balls splendidly. The 48" should be a ringer with minnie balls, less so with round ball, but a 60gr. charge shouln't stip with the round spheres.
: Look in the patch box and see if there is another nipple in there - there should be - perhaps. Many came with both a musket nipple and one for #11 caps, one of the nipples being screwed into a hole in the depths of the patch box.
: When the US military had most of the old guns re-bored, and all new ones cut to .58 and rifled, they used a 3 groove, progressive depth rifling, specifically designed for the minnie ball. The rifling was deeper at the breech, just as the Parker Hale Enfields were. This also included all .69 cal muskets from 1822 to 1840, with the three groove progressive rifling.
: You've come to the correct forum for help with your new rifle.
Daryl

 

[Plains99]

Try the 525-grain Buffalo .58 bullet in your rifle. A patched round ball will work as well. Use a moderate powder charge of 70 grains of FFg. The Zouave will not do well with heavy powder charges. I hunted with one and it does OK on deer. Unless your rifle is used it should have a musket cap nipple on it. You can order musket caps from Dixie or Cabela's if they are not commonly available in your area. Don't be surprised if you rifle shoots heavily to the right or left and you'll have to use some Ketucky statistics to get it right on. Still they are a nice rifle and loads of fun to shoot. They are very dependable and have good locks.

 

[Dai]

I thank you all for your valuable advice and comments.

I am only assuming it is a 1:48 as this is what all the books and research I have found on the internet tell me.

There is no spare nipple in the patch box, just a space to keep one and the patches. The installed nipple is too small for the RWS top hat style musket caps they sit loosely on it and fall off if raised at any angle, even to me in my novice stage of muzzle loading rifle this is not a desirable trait. I have some #10 and #11 caps at home, as I have shot BP pistols for a few years, and they are too small to fit.

I have shot ML rifles before as I had a friend in the UK who shot a 3 band Enfield (origonal) at Bisley with the MLABG. He did all the loading I just got to aim and pull the trigger. It was a real buzz and I have been trying to get into this aspect of shooting ever since. This rifle I got at an auction for $75 US and it is in very good condition. The bore is clean and the rifling unpitted, the lockwork is crisp with a light trigger and the woodwork once cleaned up is consistent with something that hasn't been used to any great deal.

I picked up a lead pot from another friend last night, a club member has promised me 100 kg (220lb)of lead. I need this as I shoot Uberti 1858 revolvers and a Rossi 1892 (.44 mag)all with Black powder and soft lead. He has just started shooting BP revolver and someone in the building trade here in New Zealand gave him 300kg (660lb) of pure lead. I've ordered 4lb of ffg powder from a gun shop. Bought a powder measure grauated to 120 grains by volume.

I have already been asked if I would like to go hunting for wild boar with the rifle later on this year. Boar over here get to about 300lb in weight and develop fearsome tusks. Should be interesting as the proper pig hunters over here dont shoot them but go in with a knife and stick them.

Thanks again for your help. I will be watching, learning and when possible contributing to this forum.

Sai

 

[squirejohn]

Ohio Joe

Since I don't shoot a cap lock anymore (haven't for years) I haven't looked too close at cap size. When my brother in law had his nipple size problem with his Zouave I didn't see any #11 caps; only musket and #10. A check of several other stores may have yielded different results.

PS His Zouave also has the slow rate of twist. Due to neglect his barrel is quite pitted in one spot. Somtimes it would shoot a RB accurately, but the .570 ball needed a .010 patch, and the patches were shredded to pieces. A thicker patch loaded too hard. I believe the next smaller ball is a .562, and this ball and thicker patch may result in better & more consistent accuracy.

 

[Zonie]

I don't know if you can measure the nipple on your Z but here are the sizes I measured on 4 different Musket Cap size nipples:

Dia at the end: .211 .216 .226 .227
Dia at the nut .239 .223 .232 .232
Top to nut dim. .285 .225 .265 .230

The first vertical row is my Armi Jeager Zouave
the second vertical row is a replacement nipple in my PH 2 band
the third vertical row is the nipple off of my PH 2 band
the forth vertical row is the nipple on my PH 3 band

Although these vary in size, they all work great with Navy Arms Musket Caps.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Sai,,, Let me give you "Dixie Gun Works" phone number, (1-800-238-6785)... I bet if you tell them what you got and what your lookin' for they'll fix ya right up...

 

My Zouave is a 1:48 twist also. It came with a couple boxes of the heavy Hornady bullets, and not knowing any better i charged the thing with 120 grains of 2fg and topped it off with the 500 + grain bullet and touched her off!
Wow what a treat!
The muzzle blast blew over two 40 foot maple trees, blasted all the feathers off'n my chickens, the dogs ran off and ain't been seen since, the Air Force investigated the mushroom cloud that could be seen for 4 miles, and all the cows in the county dried up.
I came to about an hour later and did it AGAIN! :bull: :bull: (honest)

 

[Dai]

....The muzzle blast blew over two 40 foot maple trees, blasted all the feathers off'n my chickens, the dogs ran off and ain't been seen since, the Air Force investigated the mushroom cloud that could be seen for 4 miles, and all the cows in the county dried up.
I came to about an hour later and did it AGAIN! :bull: :bull: (honest)

This is what I am looking forward too.

Went to my local gunshop yesterday and found some caps that fit better, CCI Musket Caps (smaller than the RWS i have).

Whilst there the owner told me that I was not going to find the rifle very accurate. He claimed I would be lucky to get better than a 10 inch group at 100 yds and to forget any distance shooting. Does anyone here have any experience with this rifle and an either disprove this idea or can back it up. I would have thought that something with accuracy that bad woulnt have been adopted by the military even in the 19th century.

He also tried to tell me that a mould for ball or minnie was going to cost me in excess of NZ $150 ($120 US). This seems a little excessive also.

Sai.

 

[Zonie]

Checking out Track of the Wolfs catalog I find LEE bullet molds: for casting a .575 dia Round Ball for $13.35 (single cavity), a .562 dia Double cavity mold for $16.95 and for casting a .575 "Improved Minie" or "original Minie" they want $17.95.
These molds are made of Aluminum with a steel cutoff plate and wooden handles. I own some of them and IMO they are well worth the money.

 

Sai:
10" at 100 yards is unacceptable. I have yet to shoot my own Zouave at that distance as my back yard range is 75 yards. I could make it 100 yards, but I'd have to cut down a couple really huge trees and given my track record with chain saws I'd better leave them alone! :haha:
Actually my girl friend has banned me from touching anything that resembles power equipment. :redface:
To date I have gotten 50 yard 3" groups with almost every bullet I've tried. Keep in mind I'm not smart enough to drop the powder charge down to 60 or so grains where it should be. I keep shooting the 100 grain charges and that is not the service load. I have only experimented a little with the roundball and don't know what the thing will do if proper loads were developed.
I've read that others get good accuracy with the r/b.
If I were you I'd start with a Minie bullet and 50 grains of 2fg at 25 yards and go from there. I'm sure that your rifle will do better than 10" at 100 yards.