My New Double .72

[paulvallandigham]

I agree with Bill. Use a chronograph to check both velocities, and standard devieation of velocity( SDV ) of your loads as you work them up. Its not uncommon that there is a slight variation in the bores of the two barrels, so that you have to use a different powder charge in each barrel to get them to group together. Sometimes you even have to use a different sized ball or Patch thickness in the two different barrels to get them to fire. Trying to get a load for a double gun is working on finding a load for TWO guns ! it takes a lot of work, but there is very great satisfaction.

When you are dealing with a .72 caliber gun, the Round Ball will weight and ounce and an eight, and when you have that much weight starting almost as large in diameter as a quarter, you have a huge freight car heading for your target. The huge lead slug is going to penetrate deeply, if not pass completely through the animal. If you are hunting heavy boned animals, or thick skinned animals- bear, moose, wild boar- then use an alloy lead for your Round ball. It will reduce the weight of the ball some, but it will also be slower to mushroom when it hits solid bone or muscle, and you will get the pentration needed to get to the vital orgasn for a clean kill. You DON'T have to send such a projectile out the barrel at break neck speeds. The neck you will break with be your own! That huge round ball going 1200 fps will deliver plenty of power to the target to kill at well past 100 yds. Its the trajectory that will control how far you can shoot that ball accurate, and I am sorry to say, you just can't push such a large lead ball fast enough to flatten that trajectory very much. Learn to stalk in close on your game instead, and you will find much greater success as a hunter. Getting to within 100 yds of a large game animal is not as hard as you may think.

 

[jeff rodgers]

I wondered about the 777 pressures...I've read it will boost velocity alot over black and I kinda figured the pressure would be higher. Just around here I can't find any black and didn't have the cash to lay out for the 5 pounds I'd have to get if I ordered. Mabye after Christmas. 4 kids, 4 stepkids and 5 grandchildren make the Holidays kinda expensive!
I'll just start with 100 gr by volume of 777 and use round balls for now till I can get the black powder. I have to wait till I hear back about the cost of the conicals anyway. Can't wait to try one out on a black bear!
I'll post results of my first shooting of this thing in a couple weeks...if I have an arm left to type~
Thanks!

 

[jeff rodgers]

paulvallandigham,
I hear ya on the 2 separate thing. I never really thought about it like that. I was worried about penetration due to the frontal dia. of the ball and the slow speed. I imagine most of my shots will be under 25 yards. Thats why I traded off my Savage Tactical on this one. Don't have a chrono so this will be a long process but no different than any other muzzle loader I'v ever had. Just an added bonus of trying to get them to shoot to the same point of aim. I'm not trying to get anything too stupid out of it anyway...I'm sure my shoulder will limit my powder charge!
Good to hear from someone in IL...I transfered from around Peoria (Washburn) hear to NC about 9 months ago. Thanks

 

[pchwcf50110]

yes, the chrony is the way to work up loads as you can compare velocities between black, pyrodex, & T7. start with black or pyrodex to get a baseline for comparison. it takes less T7 to get the velocity of the others. in my .72 Kodiak with .715" RB's, an eastern maine shooting supplies wool wad, and .010" patch it likes 130gr. pyrodex P. this load regulates in my rifle at 50 yards in as small as 1.75" up to 3" with two rights and two lefts. i have a special made LBT conical mould that throws .728" LFN that i size to .726" and it loads easy yet is snug enough to stay put under firing. the conicals take 115-120gr. of pyrodex P. i have only killed deer with the RB's. it bowls them over. shot one at 15 yards and one at 35 this year on deer drives. my RB's are from a Rapine mould and are 40:1 Pb, Sn.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are reading the rest of the topics here, you should understand that you can order Black Powder from Powder, Inc., Graf & sons, and a few other suppliers, in amounts less than a case, and even with paying the Haz Mat fee, the cost per lbs is under $13.00 per lb. You need to buy 4 lbs or more, but that is about half what you are paying for that 777. Various costs have been mentioned in this past week, from just under $10, to under $13.00. with everyone expecting a price increase for the new year.

I would not waste my money on 777, but I shoot flint, and only have a double barrel 12 ga. shotgun that used percussion caps. The money you save on 5 lbs of powder will pay for a chronograph from Sportsman's guide, or maybe half of it. The amount of money that chronograph will save you at the range will pay for itself in a year.

Peoria is till here. We miss you.

 

[jeff rodgers]

Thanks for the "HI" from home. I guess I can always use the 777 for my cap and ball revolvers! My son brought it over when he couldn't pick up any BP. I'm afraid I will at least have to try it with the .72 since I'm afraid I can't wait till the BP gets here. I've had this for a week and got the RB's and top hats in the mail today. I NEED to fire it. At least hear it go boom!

451 Whitworth....Those conicals you are making sound great. What weight? And if you ever get around to selling them, PM me.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you need to know where to get a mold for those Whitworth bullets, let me know. I can call a friend who bought a mold, and was very pleased with the accuracy he got shooting the gun.

 

[MercerLake]

Here are some othe results that I got with my gun shooting over my chronograph at 10 feet from the muzzles.
.715" rB .010" Patch .030" card wad over;

80 gr FFg 878fps
80 gr 777 984fps

100gr FFg 1025fps 54fps variation
100gr 777 1191fps 80fps variation

120 gr FFg 1172fps
120 gr 777 1302fps

From this it is apparent that volume for volume 777 produces more velocity. More velocity = more pressure! How much more I don't know. The volume in the barrel is increasing very rapidly when this large diameter ball starts to move with any powder so with any reasonable load of Bp or 777 I don't think you would have a problem. With a conical there is more mass and a lot more friction so pressures would increase. The above figures were averages of 10 shots, Bp produces the lowest variation about 1/2 of that with 777. I didn't notice a signifigent difference in accuracy between Bp & 777, but if it were colder and I was hunting I'd stick with Bp for a sure fire result. Shoulder pressure is likely the limit for more power. I agree that any load moving this massive ball or conical at 1200fps or so will kill most anything on earth up close, inertia is a wonderful thing! Have fun!

 

[pchwcf50110]

oldsmokeyjeff, the conicals weigh in at 890 grs. i prefer the RB's in rifles this big as the bullets approach my limit in recoil. mercerlake's numbers mirror my own findings. i will add a few, (same RB setup as described in my previous post), 140gr. pyrodex RS with #11 cap = 1190 fps, 140gr. pyrodex P with #11 cap = 1240 fps, just by changing to musket caps velocities rise anywhere from 50-100 fps. the 140gr. pyrodex P load went 1330 fps while the pyrodex RS load went 1240 fps. ignition is much more consistant with the musket caps when dealing with this amount of powder. i also think that the FFFG grades of powder are the way to go in these big bores with RB's. the conicals that i cast require a different front sight as you run out of adjustment with the original setup.

 

[BillinOregon]

Just a note to Kodiak fanciers. The new Cabela's spring catalog shows prices on Italian revolvers going up 10 to 15 percent. If they stock the Kodiaks next year, I would expect prices to come close to $1,000, which is where Dixie is at right now. You can still order a Kodiak for $760 or less, even though they are backordered on the .72 for two months or so. Unless the Euro takes a dive against the dollar soon, nothing from Italy will be getting any cheaper soon, and probably much more expensive.

 

[jeff rodgers]

Sorry it took me so long to get back! I am on call for work this week and it has been hectic. Thanks to Whitworth and Mercer Lake for the load info. Whitworth, I very much appreciate the sacrifice you and your shoulder not to mention your wallet made to get this info for me. I will be going to the range this coming weekend after Christmas and will try to regulate the barrels and get a good load, with 777 for now, till I can get the FF.
Got ahold of Wayne Doudna and he will do the big conicals for .40 apiece (about half of Dixies cost) and RB's for .20.
Oh, almost forgot...any reason to use the over powder card or wad with round balls?
Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!
Jeff

 

[windwalker_au]

jeff if you use a stout load then use the over powder
wad or card it will stop your patch from getting burned out merry christmas.
bernie :thumbsup: