My new to me Fusil trade rifle

[alaskasmoker]

Well here it is. Made by A.l. Edge. She looks well used, and not just from the patina, but looks like the former owner carried and used it quite a bit wich is a good sign I guess.

Im not sure exactly what to call this gun. Looks like a fusil trade rifle. Not sure who made the barrel, but its octagon to round, .62 smooth. Lock is a germanic Davis.

Pretty good craftsmanship through out, although looks rough enough to have been assembled with nothing but hand tools or primitive tools to be exact. I guess if I had to say its probably exactly what a trade rifle would have looked like as far as Fit and finish goes in the 1700's.

Sadly upon delivery a crack was made at the nose of the stock. Seller says the crack wasn't there pre delivery. So I went down and epoxied it best I could. I also ordered a nose cap that Ill put on it, probably cover most of it up. IF anyone has any other tips or suggestions how to deal with this Id appreciate it.


Package was insured, but I dont feel like going through the heartache and wait to see how it will play out.

Im thinking about also putting a rear sight on. and maybe doing something about the tiny little soldered on front sight. But the barrel up that way looks pretty thin to be dovetailing in another one. Maybe Ill get another sight and solder it on.

All in All its got alot of character.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am suspecting that the top tang bolt was left HIGH, above the level of the tang, so that if the slot is aligned with the top of the barrel, IT will be a rear sight to use with that short front sight. Take care in how you tighten that bolt if your remove it. Using the slot in the bolt head is a common "rear" sight on trade guns. That is also the reason the front sight is so low. Try shooting it some and see if it doesn't work fine as is.

I would not put a nosecap on the muzzle of the stock. The crack simply adds character to the gun. IMHO, a nosecap would be out of place on this style gun. :thumbsup:

 

[alaskasmoker]

Yeah, that thought came to me as well about the tang bolt. Ill try it out before I do anything else.

 

[THOM]

I'm with Paul - don't put any kind of nose cap on.
However accra-glass has a couple of small tubes of coloring.This stuff is super strong; and may be worked onto the end, and shaped just like the end of the stock ..
Maybe yer epoxy will be strong enough..
Just a thought
Winter well ; and look good :rotf: :haha: :wink:

Thom

 

[THOM]

Question for Paul?
Did the trade guns have any C-scrolls or S-scrolls
incised or carved into the stock ?
Any engraving done on the flat brass butt-plate ?
I know they had brass tacks.. any other decorations ??
Thanks in advance, Paul
Winter well
Try to look good !! :haha: :youcrazy: :rotf:
Thom

 

[alaskasmoker]

Well my epoxy job came out pretty well. You can still see the crack, but not as bad, I'll refrain from the cap for now. I dont think the tang bolt is gonna work out for a rear sight. there is absolutley no sight picture formed when looking over it.

But, Ill see what happens with just this front sight.

Cant wait to shoot this thing. It feels great at the shoulder and at carry. Its light and feels well balanced.

This is a pretty cool gun, when I first opened the box I was a little dissapointed but its already growing on me.Just dissapointed cause the pictures and description were pretty fantastical. Was described as lightly used, premium walnut, Highest quality castings, nice carving ect. I just had this expectation of this masterpiece in my mind but instead got a rustic, very simple utilitarian gun. Not to mention the crack

Its rustic looking, but seems to be of real quality. The buttplate looks like it would be a nightmare to inlay, yet the builder did it perfect. The barrel and Lock are inlayed perfect as well. The rear entry thimble looks a little skewed but not bad. The raised carving at the tang and the comb where it meats the wrist are simple but a nice subtle touch.

I forgot to mention the stock is Walnut. The seller described it as premium, but Im not so sure about that. Its got a little figure in it, but looks a little plain to me. But I come from a synthetic generation so what do I know?

Unfortunatly the seller was not the long term owner of this gun, I think he just had it for a short while, and is a novice at flintlocks. He's not been of much help with giving me any loading information or history of this gun.

I'm also thinking about putting some brass tacks on it, I just love trade guns with a little tack work on them.

One thing that is bugging me about the lock though is that the pan looks like it has been hogged out or some one was digging at it with a file. Maybe it rusted and guy was trying to clean it out? It looks fine, just kinda of rough.

Also the trigger pull is pretty heavy. Ill have to crack open my books and see what I can do to remedy that.

Well sorry to keep rambling about this thing, but its all I got to do for now till at least Wednesday. :shocked2:

 

[paulvallandigham]

My understanding of trade guns was that they were fairly plain guns as Manufactured. No one can claim no carvings or inlays were never added after they were received, however.

The Tacks, for instance, are considered to be "add-ons" that Indians put on their guns for decoration, and for identification. Some trappers and traders also used tacks on their gun stocks to signify religion( cross) or affiliation with one European power or another- ( the French cross{Cross of Lorraine} with 2 bars, for instance.) Clan symbols are another source of decoration of trade guns, within tribes. YOu will occasionally see brass, or steel inlays in stocks of images of animals that represent either a tribe or clan within a tribe, as a means of identifying the owner. Beads were also used to adorn guns, and identify the owner, tied to the trigger guard.

I don't recall ever seeing an original Trade Gun with either incise, or relief carving, however. I have seen some replicas done that way, by owners, because they wanted to take great pride in their guns. Instead of plain wood, they will buy an expensive, well-grained, and fiddlebacked stock, that is then carved to the owner's desire. Such a fancy-stocked gun is nice to see, but looks out of place in the field, IMHO.

Having said that, there are museums all over the US, and Canada, that display Trade Guns from one era or another. There is no central registry where one can go to even locate all the museums, and private collections of these guns, much less the guns themselves. I am sure someone will have a gun someplace that is decorated with some kind of carving that is dated very early. If so, it will have been a presentation piece intended to influence a powerful chief, or reward a successful post manager, by giving him a gun that would be the envy of all the Indians, and Metis that dealt with him at his trading post.

 

[pichou]

Looks like a fowling gun to me. Germanic influenced lock, English gun, perhaps. The French influence takes over c. 1770 (?). Mounts look like French influence.

I wouldn't change the nose. I split my stock by hammering a misaligned pin, about the same place your split is. I just guled it, and it held fine. Oh, and don't tell anybody about my stupid stunt. :redface: :wink:

Most tacked guns have such stereotypical patterns that the current thinking is that most were tacked by traders. Tacks would not be appropriate on your gun. :nono:

 

[alaskasmoker]

Going by tracks catalog, if its accurate,

The stock closely resembels the Fusil type C trade stock.

The serpent plate is from the queen anne era.

The butplate is of english style for a fine fowling gun as well as the triggerguard.

Yeah, I would almost agree with fowler for the most part, except for the serpant side plate and the Fusil stock. But it does have lines like a fowler.

What about "chiefs grade trade gun"?

What I should do is contact Mr Edge and get his story. It's my understanding that he restores and copies originals as a specialty.

 

[JOHN F]

alaska dude ,would you send a supermodel to a plastic surgeon??? that girl is damn beautiful the way she is...i am really hyped up to build a french gun soon.....

 

[Rod Lassey]

Upper Missouri fur trader Henry Boller mentions trade guns with trader installed tacks ---anything to make a sale.

Rod

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

One thing that is bugging me about the lock though is that the pan looks like it has been hogged out or some one was digging at it with a file. Maybe it rusted and guy was trying to clean it out? It looks fine, just kinda of rough.

Maybe the pan could do with a little polishing with a Dremel.

I think that it's a good looking gun Matt.

 

[redwing]

It seems that most of the orignal French guns were stocked in fruit woods. Some of the guns were restocked in walnut. :thumbsup:

 

[pichou]

Couple of points to consider...

1. Track's descriptions are not accurate. Sorry. R.E. Davis' descriptions are more accurate, or better yet, get a good book on fowling guns.

2. Serpent side plates have a long history of use in Europe, AND, your side plate is not, I repeat NOT a fur trade/trade gun/chief's gun/Board of Ordinance style sideplate.

If you really, really want a trade gun, sell that Princess you have, and get a nice North Star West chiefs or trade gun. BTW, NSW's chief's gun is actually a Board of Ordinance gun. :wink:

 

[pichou]

It seems that most of the orignal French guns were stocked in fruit woods. Some of the guns were restocked in walnut. :thumbsup:

Yup I would go with "French," IF you can find serpents on French fowlers. I think the origin of serpents is in the Germanic, which is where the Brits got it from.

Otherwise, I would go with "Early French influenced English Fowler." :thumbsup: