My Pedersoli Classic Side By Side Patterns

[Woody Morgan]

Love my classic 20!
60 grains of 3f Swiss, 2 op cards, a lubed cushion wad, 1 ounce of #8 and another card. Good shooter at 25 yards. I do have to completely ignore the rear bead and use the front bead like a front sight. Mount gun, put center of target atop the front post and hit the trigger. Taking it quail hunting next weekend.

wm

 

[Britsmoothy]

Again, this only hold true if the bore is actually exactly 12 gauge. .729. I have a Pedersoli "12b" that is NOT .729. 11 gauge would be around .751. My bore dimensions before the choke are in-betweeen the true 12 and 11. The only way to determine the choke dimensions are to know the bore diameter and subtract the choke diameter. The only way to know the real "choke" is to shoot the standard 40-yard, 30-inch circles and count the pellets in the circle to determine the "choke" spread. With a muzzleloader, you can change the whole pattern by changing components too. So regardless of the constriction, one set of components can produce a pattern that is +/- what another set of components produces from the same barrel.

Wow that's unusual. Most Pedersoli 12g, no, let me change that. The five Pedersoli 12g I have owned measured around .719"-.721" and my card punch I made cuts them around .730-".740" (iirc) which worked for all of them.
You have a special one there friend.

 

[Steel Guitar]

I like beer. But, anyway, the way I learned this is by listening to others who know what they're talking about. Other than that, I learn from my mistakes. The only problem with that is I make so many mistakes I can't remember some until I repeat them, I think it's called getting old. Good luck pard !

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Guys I should have mentioned - the wad on the right barrel *broke apart* on loading.

I was/am not to worried about that barrel because I was pretty sure it was not full choke.

However I have ordered 13 gauge wads and will pattern it again.

(And I may consider not using wads as suggested above.)

(A problem with doing lots of patterns is that the range only has 25 and 50Y targets, neither of which is ideal range. So I do it in the woods when out hunting, but I think this is not totally legal. I can pop off two but doing a dozen shots might be a problem.)

LOL, it is totally legal or totally illegal! I don’t think two or twelve shots would change that! Anyhoo, enjoy the piece, mine is full and modified but you can make it shoot pretty much whatever you want to a point depending on how you load it. I don’t use full felt wads anymore, I cut them in three making them about 3/16 of an inch and place it on top of an OPC. Load the shot and place an OSC. The newer Pedersolis are true to gauge, if your is new it should be a 12 ga. Mostly important, have fun with it and develop a Pyrodex RS load for it sooner than later!!

 

[foxbo]

My friend bought one of these shotguns in 1978. He got it from a place called Gasman's Archery in San Antonio, TX for two hundred bucks. We were in the USAF, both as Marksmanship Instructors assigned to the Medina Annex where the firing ranges were located. We didn't have any wads and probably knew even less about such things. We used toilet paper as wadding and sometimes I'd say the toilet tissue arrived to the target prior to the shot load. Yup, we set the range on fire a couple times which required quick footed action to stamp out.

He came to visit me last week and sold me the shotgun for a hundred bucks. It's in pretty decent shape and probably not fired more than fifty times. I have not fired it since 78. I've read some on these forums and learned that there is a lighter version out there, but this gun ain't one of them. Weighing in at 7.5 lbs. on my kitchen scales. Still, a very nice gun.

I ordered some wads, a nipple wrench, and a plastic shot measurer. I have it loaded with 1.5 oz. of # 6 shot in the right barrel and ten # 1 buckshot in the left. I figured I'd shoot a tree rat with the small shot and might get lucky enough to run into a deer with the left barrel.

I'm sixty seven now and it's kind of neat that the gun and I ran into each other again so many years later. I got into flintlocks back then in 77, so I'm not new to black powder. This is my first percussion other than a stainless Ruger cap and ball.

Don't mean to be so long winded as this is my first post. I really enjoy reading this forum and I'm sure most of you guys do too. Thanks for a very cool place to read about what we love.

 

[smo]

Welcome foxbo

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Buying your wads based on your choke diameter is not a good idea. The wads or cards should be sized by the bore diameter before the choke constriction, otherwise you will have too small a wad/card & not get a good gas seal. Like others have said, dump the fiber wads & just use cards. Turn them 90 degrees & they will slip right past your choke easily. Then flatten them with your ramrod & load away. My 20 uses 19 gauge cards, but my 12 uses 12 cards. You have to measure your bore properly to know what wad to use. Pedersoli's are known to be all over the map when it comes to bore diameter & your choke constriction is what the reduction from bore diameter is, not what it measures at the end of the barrel. If your bore diameter is not standard, then using the choke diameter to tell what choke it is will give a false answer.

 

[LRB]

When I was a kid, long ago, we checked for 12 ga. full chokes using a dime. A 12 ga. full choke would not allow a dime to enter the muzzle, but a modified or other choke would.

 

[PaulF70]

The dime trick worked on my gun, telling me the right barrel is Full and the left Modified.

I would have no idea how to measure the bore under the choke, offhand. Anyway, a fellow above says "newer Pedersolis are true to gauge" and, boy, for the money, they should be!

(Great find on that $200 gun! And to me 7.5 lb is perfect for a 12ga.)

Next time out I'll try cards only, 12ga. I do have 12 & 13 ga wads now but had the same concern about them not sealing! No point in a wad then!

I've got to find a range that'll let me pattern the gun. You can't do this right out in the woods.

 

[Archer 756]

How come you are not trying Skychief's Shot Load Link All my smooth bores and my 10 ga tight groups out to 30 yrds.

 

[ZUG]

Go to Brownell's web site and look for Royal quick check choke gauge - cost is about $10. It can be easily put in your shirt pocket and give you a quick check of what choke you have. This can help you when buying a shotgun or just to know what your old grand pappy's wall hanger is choked at.

 

[PaulF70]

How come you are not trying Skychief's Shot Load Link All my smooth bores and my 10 ga tight groups out to 30 yrds.

I'll have to try that out!

 

[jackpine54]

Don't be afraid to try loads without the cushion. I know guys that just use overpower card or even overshot cards between powder and shot. It'll all change the pattern. And maybe get rid of the hole in the pattern
Enjoy that shotgun! Good luck on the turkeys.

 

[stikshooter]

Another thing - the cushion wads especially were really tough to get down the barrels due to the choke. I cannot find slightly undersized wads. Anyone know of a supplier?

Mine has screw in chokes (just got it) took care of wads 3/4 inch felts . The felts go right by what ever chokes you have . I make from Dura felt bulk using 3/4 hole punch (Harbor Freight) , 2 oil soaked olive oil over shot and one dry over powder . The only variation to the Sky Chief load instead of card and the wads your using ,@ 25 yds /1 1/4 oz 6 shot in a 9 inch paper plate the modified rt barrel kills birds @ 25 yds and the full I think is what your looking for at 35 PM me and I will email you some photos . Can't do squat on this site for photos

 

[foxbo]

Welcome foxbo

Thanks SMO!

 

[SDSmlf]

Wow that's unusual. Most Pedersoli 12g, no, let me change that. The five Pedersoli 12g I have owned measured around .719"-.721" and my card punch I made cuts them around .730-".740" (iirc) which worked for all of them.
You have a special one there friend.

At the muzzle the bores on my Pedersoli 12 gauge double measure .710”/.692”. For the folks using a dime (.705” diameter) to measure, a dime drops through the .710” barrel, and is a no go in the .692”. Pedersoli’s current spec says cylinder/modified, so mine may be a bit tighter, with the actual bore diameter behind the choke measuring right at .720” using an air gauge. I have been able to check one other Pedersoli double and it’s bores were also right at .720”

Below is a photograph of the markings on the bottom of the Pedersoli double I own. 18.3 is the nominal bore diameter, 12gauge or .720”. AD is the proof year (1978).

For cards I use Mike’s 12 gauge Over Powder and Over Shot cards that measure .750”ø. When I use wads (Skychief loading) I use Mike’s 13 gauge Cushion Wad that measures around .725”ø. Patterns vary depending on how and what I load, but the cushion between the powder and the shot seems to result in the most blown patterns.

 

[oldwood]

Said this before , and will repeat my success. After much testing , I quit using any cushion wads. All they do is blow up the shot pattern , make holes in the pattern because they don't drop away out of the shot cloud quick enough. I found, that one .125 , or no more than a 1/4 " card wad on the powder is needed. They fall out of the shot cloud quickly , and few voids in pattern are created The over shot wad can be made by separating a .125 wad in half. It falls out of the pattern quickly as well. ..............oldwood

 

[PaulF70]

Said this before , and will repeat my success. After much testing , I quit using any cushion wads. All they do is blow up the shot pattern , make holes in the pattern because they don't drop away out of the shot cloud quick enough. I found, that one .125 , or no more than a 1/4 " card wad on the powder is needed. They fall out of the shot cloud quickly , and few voids in pattern are created The over shot wad can be made by separating a .125 wad in half. It falls out of the pattern quickly as well. ..............oldwood

Why not just use a standard .025" thick over shot card? Is the point of using a split .125 just to simplify to only one card size needed, or because that works better than the .025? I'm guessing the former.

As to no wads, I'll certainly have to try it. Kinda surprising that a couple hundred years of BP shotgun wisdom produced that system (using wads) if they're just not needed. I'm not doubting you (and I've heard this before), but it's a little surprising.

(My black powder shotgun was the first weapon I've ever owned where I had to *study a diagram* to learn how to load it due to using *five different loading elements*..)

 

[Britsmoothy]

As to no wads, I'll certainly have to try it. Kinda surprising that a couple hundred years of BP shotgun wisdom produced that system (using wads) if they're just not needed. I'm not doubting you (and I've heard this before), but it's a little surprising.

Most fibre, paper based or plastic wads today are designed around filling modern shotgun hulls.
If you make a black powder shot shell up with a sufficient amount of black powder there won't be enough room for wad used in the same hull that is loaded with smokeless powder.

There is plenty of historical accounts describing cut blankets, felt, leather, leaf and tow to form wads. A wad can be anything. It does not have to come out of a plastic bag with a label stating shotgun wads.

 

[PaulF70]

Most fibre, paper based or plastic wads today are designed around filling modern shotgun hulls.
If you make a black powder shot shell up with a sufficient amount of black powder there won't be enough room for wad used in the same hull that is loaded with smokeless powder.

There is plenty of historical accounts describing cut blankets, felt, leather, leaf and tow to form wads. A wad can be anything. It does not have to come out of a plastic bag with a label stating shotgun wads.

We were talking about using *no* wad. Yes, of course, historical wads were not just like modern ones, but, according to what you posted, it was the norm to use a wad.