My second build

[Vaino]

My second build in 1977 {the first was a TC Hawken kit} was my .45 cal. squirrel LR and I was very fortunate as to how it came out functionally....aesthetically I call it "Ugly".

The lock was a small Siler that I made from a kit and the reason for doing this was the lousy quality of the flintlocks then on the market. This lock was not w/o design errors which I soon realized....the frizzen didn't like to toggle over when the flint was too short and the half cock position didn't allow for a longer flint. This was corrected by grinding a .010 high cam on the frizzen spring.

The touch hole liner w/ a 1/16 dia TH was a 1/4-20 SS set screw w/ the hex recess towards the bore. It had a screwdriver slot and later on changed that to a couple of angled slots on the outside of the set screw which allowed a spanner wrench to be used. Didn't like the slot across the TH.

The trigger pull is a crisp 2-1/2 lbs, both sights are handmade w/ the front blade having a silver insert soldered in.

This 42" bbled LR has head hit 100s of squirrels, had reliable, fast ignition, no clogged THs and cleaning wasn't a chore because it had bbl keys.

This LR formed my opinions on flintlocks.....they should be every bit as reliable as a caplock and then some.

I hear all sorts of problems w/ flintlocks and this shouldn't be.....if the MLer is built correctly.....Fred

 

[hanshi]

Attention! Your rifle IS NOT ugly!

 

[edlee]

I agree,, this looks like a weapon I would be proud to shoot, carry or hang on my wall.

 

[Lonegun1894]

To save you from having to look at it any longer, I will offer to pay postage for this ugly rifle from your house to mine, and I promise to take it out for squirrel hunting walks too.

Looks good to me! Nice work! :hatsoff:

 

[Brokennock]

Nothing ugly about that. Wish it were mine, it would be a great piece toward my idea of putting together a set of gear comprised of things built by some of the excellent craftsmen on this forum.

 

[Walks with fire]

It looks good; shoots good and functions well; what's ugly about that. I agree that the flint is better than percussion as well. I like the wedge key for removing the barrel on a long rifle.

Nice rifle and well done. :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

Thanks to all responders for the kind words, but "it" is Ugly and have thought many times about remaking "it" into something a little more good looking. I could list all the ugly attributes, but don't want to do that because the main gist of my OP was to relate my pleasant experiences over nearly 40 yrs of trouble free shooting w/ a flintlock.

Many wars have been fought w/ flintlocks as the weapon of choice and the flintlock has been responsible for the survival of most early immigrants to this country and I don't think flintlocks had all the complications back then that we're experiencing today......Thanks again.....Fred

 

[rr11]

I wish my first build looked half that good. My father gave me a Dixie plinker pistol kit in 1968. The stock was a sawed blank the barrel was a 12" peace of a barrel. The best I can say is it shot, it shot fairly well and it did get this BP monkey on my back. :haha:

 

[dave_person]

Fred,
That is a super second build and it is great to see how far you advanced in your skills. I also appreciate the desire to rebuild old work. My first gun became a parts gun and was incorporated into several later, and much better rifles. That is a great patchbox.

dave

 

[Vaino]

Possibly the only attractive feature of this LR is the Pbox....went way over my head w/ it and had many problems making and inletting it.....but learned a lot in doing.

Have never used another small Siler flintlock.....it's too small even for the Bucks County LRs that I build...must be for a pistol? The small Siler is the main reason I haven't rebuilt this LR.

I really admire your work.....you get into things that I don't have the will or skill to do. Looking forward to your present build and your excellent close up pics...did you go to photography school?.....Fred

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I find it interesting what each individual's definition of "ugly" is. That rifle is certainly not perfect, but it is far from being ugly. It appears to me that the definitions of ugliness and incorrectness get a little blurred when it comes to gunbuilding. There may be things on that rifle that are not correct to the style you wished to follow, but there is nothing to my eye that is seen as objectionable.

If you want ugly, ask me what I drive.

 

[Mercian]

Ugly....to my eye most certainly not, she looks sweet, I'd be proud of it. :thumbsup:

Mind, those shoes look as if they could do with a lick of polish.

 

[Captjoel]

Fred, I know it is hard to remember what your emotions were back when that rifle was built. I would guess that at the time you were at least "satisfied" with this rifle. I can only reflect on my own experience's in gun building. My first built flintlock longrifle had me prancing around showing it off to all of my friends and family! I could not believe I could make something that actually shot dependably and fairly accurately! Back then, I even thought that rifle was beautiful. It inspired me to invest in books and finding friends with similar interests. My fanciful opinions about that rifle were very short lived. New knowledge and hands on experience's with original rifles and fine contemporary pieces made by gifted craftsmen, soon cast a gray shadow upon my work. It began to look more like a curly maple 2 by 4 with a lock and barrel. That rifle is now long gone into parts for other builds but the emotional excitement it gave me that put me on this path will never be forgotten.

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

I`ll pay postage for the stock! :v

 

[dave_person]

Hi Fred,
I hope you realize that our respect for each others work is mutual. My photography could not be simpler. I have an old outdated Olympus digital camera that needs to be replaced soon. My background is 5/8 foam insulation with aluminum foil on one side and the other side painted flat black. When I can, I photograph outside on an overcast day so there is no bright sunlight. I simply lay the gun down on the black background and fire away. I have a few blocks and cradles of wood so I can angle the gun to get the right view. Basically, I follow Bill Shipman's method.

dave

 

[Vaino]

Thanks for your insightful post....yes, I did have a moment of elation upon completing "Ugly" {"its" name didn't happen 'til a few months later}, but sneaking suspicions were always present....mainly just ignored them.

But....the aesthetics were forgotten when hunting for squirrels....that .45 cal, 7/8" straight Douglas bbl which was muzzle heavy and very accurate proceeded to take the heads off the squirrels.

"It" also did a good job when sitting on my gunrack.....while building every other MLer, I'd look at "it" and "it" would say to me..." Don't build another one like me". I don't think I did. Oops...should have deleted the shoes......Fred

 

[Brokennock]

Okay. So, you learned alot form this "ugly" rifle, and, it inspired you to not make the same mistakes again. Please help out those of us that apparently don't have the eye, or knowledge, to see what's wrong. Can you please point out some specifics as to where you went wrong, and maybe why it's considered wrong?

Too often when some of us less knowledgeable people, maybe we're more shooters/hunters than builders/historians, ask about specific reasons why certain guns aren't HC/PC or are poor examples of a type of gun, we get told to go buy a bunch of very expensive books. I love books, I have WAY too many, but a straight answer would be nice now and then.

Thanks for helping to educate us.

 

[Vaino]

The first mistake I made was mating a small Siler flintlock {never should have used it} w/ a 7/8" straight bbl...perhaps some could have done it much better....in fact I know some could have pulled it off, somewhat. My reasoning or excuses follow.

Not enough wood was removed to make it look like a "longrifle"....at the time I got shaky and didn't want to ruin the build, so crept up on the wood removal and took too little off....which made the small Siler look really small.

Seeing I'm quite familiar w/ "Ugly's" shortcomings, both the upper and lower forestocks are too thick along the bbl. The wrist is too thick...a lot more wood should have been removed. The lock and sideplate panels are wrong...a common mistake of beginners.

The "look" of "ugly" was supposed to be ala Beck, but that didn't happen.

On the positive side....this was my first Pbox, my first cold forged trigger and plate, first Mcap, RR pipes, cheek star and first front and rear sights. So...in spite of my creating "Ugly", "it" wasn't a waste of time....the education was invaluable. And as I related, "Ugly" was a superb squirrel LR.

I can't blame "Ugly" and never would because a Dr. Frankenstein created "it".

As you might have guessed, I'll probably never sell "Ugly" for many reasons.....Fred

 

[MSW]

dunno, Fred ...

I kinda like "ugly."

 

[Brokennock]

Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. "Ugly" is a little too Rubenesque not enough Kate Moss? You say the lock panels are wrong. How? Too wide, too much wood left around the edges?

I can totally appreciate being attached to something that you feel is less than perfect, but in being so has taught you so much.