My T/C-1:48 won't shoot conicals....

[don hepler]

Several years back, the R.E.A.L. or Lee Real bullet was very popular, and accurate. I can't remember the weight, but they are a lot smaller than a Maxi-Ball. I have shot a couple of deer with the Maxi-Ball out of a White Mountain TC, but I think the rifling was 1 in 28, or something close to that. If I were to start shooting conicals now, I'd have to investigate, paper patched bullets.
It's an interesting subject, so keep us posted. I'd be glad to have the final results on what you come up with. Good Luck.

 

[duck hollow pete]

Don as stated how does the barrel feel with a prb in a clean barrel(use a wood rod it's light)then get the mices out, tc 370 505-506 top, middle &bottom 500.QC could be the issue, it wouldn't be the 1st time.Weight them, some store boughts were made harder than pure for shipping and some home cast aren't always that soft either.You should try to shoot acouple into something soft then retrieve them to see if they upset to fill the groove. 80grs of 2f should shoot a very nice group 50yrs with no problem at all!

 

[Maven]

I reread Don's original post re RB's and 2 1/2" - 3" groups and have to agree with duck hollow pete's view that quality control or a less than perfect bbl. may be the problem. At 50 yds. from a rest, it should shoot a well fitted PRB or Maxi-Ball into 1".

 

[Don Steele]

Thanks for all the great responses folks.
Rifleman1776..."Just Because".
I get decent though not great grps with PRB's out of this bbl. without even trying. For comparison...when I actually TRY...shooting a Green Mtn. slow twist drop-in bbl, from 50, off a rest...I get a big ragged hole.
I'm curious about the "bulging" comment.
Can a bbl be sufficiently "bulged" to cause this kind of problem by firing a shot when the projectile has only been started down to the length of the short starter...but not rammed home to sit on the powder...???
Thanks Again...

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

Some of my old friends Paper patch the 370 gr. maxi and it may work for you?

 

[Vaino]

Hopefully a "bulged" bbl isn't the problem....yes, a heavy conical that's up the bbl a ways could bulge the bbl....Fred

 

[don hepler]

Some older guys, have been blessed with good eye sight, not so much for others. With a good rest, and good sights, I'm lucky to get 2 1/2" at 50 yds. myself. Don and I just happen to be the same age. The point is, that the round ball results are no where the conical results. I think if he was getting 2 1/2, he'd be somewhat satisfied.

If you are 69, and shooting 1" groups at 50 yards, count your blessings. Believe me, you are the exception to the rule. I'm at the range at least 3 days a week, during nice weather, and I seldom see 1" groups, from any iron sighted rifle.

 

[Mad Professor]

And another thing that can make things tight at the front few inches is the way a bore is wiped between shots with a cleaning patch.
If the patch is sent down & up in a back & forth motion without ever exiting the muzzle, more and more fouling builds up in the first few inches of the bore.
IMO, a patch should be run down then brought back up and out of the muzzle to prevent that.
(also lets it be flipped over to a clean side or another patch used altogether)

A very good point RB. :thumbsup:

If I'm shooting conicals a run 1-2 wet patches then a dry between shots. If I don't the fouling can get so bad it is difficult to load.

 

[palonghunter]

Have you tried the Hornady 240gr Pa.Conical? Looks like the old Ballet that's not made anymore.
You could use with or without a felt pad.

I've had good luck with these in my 1:48 twist CVA.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Mine shoots prb great with 90 grains of 2f, but conicals TC Maxi's I run 85 Grains of 3f. I hates 2f with them.

 

[sidelock]

same with mine.

 

[Cowboy2]

I learned the hard way to try the simplest/cheapest solution first. When I was still relatively new to bp rifles, I had a TC .50 that loved conicals. Then it slowly, and then quickly, opened up the groups. I couldn't get any consistency out of it at all. I spent a whole lot of time, money, and effort trying out new bullets and loads. Turns out the flash-hole in the nipple had eroded a hair, so pressure was inconsistent. Green as I was, I didn't know they burned out from time to time. One $5 nipple later, things were fine. Which doesn't mean this is what's going on with your rifle, but I'd try the cheap fix first.

 

[longcruise]

There have been some really good advice thrown your way. Some of what I say will be repeating it.

check your barrel for a bulge with a caliper or mic.

wrap steel wool without any solvent on ot onto your jag so its a tight fit and scrub the whole thing thoroughly then inspect the steel wool for lead. If you see any, keep it up till its all out.

replace your nipple every thirty shots or so, or, get a platinum lined nipple


after EVERY shot wipe your bore being especially attentive to the point where the conical rests on the powder. After two or three shots a crud ring grows there and it wrecks your accuracy.

probably not twist rate related. If twist is sufficient to stabilize the bullet it should no effect accurscy if insufficient your bullets will start keyholling

too much to type on my phone!😞

 

[Don Steele]

Definitely a LOT of great ideas and suggestions. I'm not through yet...I'll keep at it.
This week-end,I'm going to be trying over powder wads more extensively. There are no residues in the bbl....I keep it "squeeky" clean.
I have yet to try the Hornady 385 great plains (I think..??)bullets(hollow base)...but I have some on the way. The Buffalo balls, 385 gn. offerings weren't much good.
Then I was reading Idaho Ron's excellent results from paper patching...hmmmm.... :hmm: :hmm:
What fun. :youcrazy:

 

[azmntman]

I have had excellent grouping results with the Horady 385 with 70 grains in most of my hawkins 50's. They are CVA or older Cabels (Investarms?)

Keep at it!

 

[Don Steele]

Gentlemen,
Here's an update from yesterday's range session, along with some direct responses(in no particular order) to the thoughts and suggestions offered, and gratefully accepted.
1.) The bore is squeeky clean..examined with a light, and smooth when pulling a tight wiping patch through it.
2.) The use of overpowder wads is very appealing,I have yet to find proper 50 cal. Oxyoke lubricated overpowder wads in this little corner of Florida. In an effort to approximate them, I did purchase some thick fabric labelled "felt", and a set of hole punches. Punched out a bunch using the .500 punch, lubed them with Bore Butter. Those didn't improve things. They seemed too small, and the single thickness of that particular fabric, to "floppy".
3.)Powder choice: All my shooting has been with both 2f and 3f Goex. No particular difference noted. When I eventually find a combination that shoots into anything that can be called a "Group", I'll work on fine-tuning the granulation and charge weight. So far, I've shot charges ranging from 70-100 without seeing a group worth stopping and working on. I've chosen 90gns. to use for my Hog Load, and hope to stay with it...but will adjust to get the BEST precision.
4.)I wipe between shots with a slightly moist patch("moose milk"). Single pass, down and out, always using the same wiping patch material.
5.) A new nipple is MOST definitely in my future.I hate to say it, but I had not considered the nipple could be a problem, since I get decent results with PRB's, but it's a small thing, and will be replaced, just to see.
Shooting results: All at 50 yds from a rest.
In an effort to answer some questions about bore/ball size issues, I went shopping for Number 9 Onion skin paper to give paper patching a try. Have not located any yet. Also, I don't have a sizing die to size the wrapped Maxi's as IdahoRon suggested. HOWEVER...I do have Teflon pipe tape.
At this point all you HC guys might want to go for a cup of coffee.
I wrapped the bottom half of several T/C maxi's, lubed with homemade "Emmert's lube" with 2-3 in. of teflon pipe tape.
Loaded over 90 gns. of Goex 2f, they are the first thing to give me anything that looks like a group. Unfortunately, It was obvious on loading, that the teflon tape was migrating up the side of the maxi, providing unknown, and more importantly inconsistent levels coverage. That said however...MOST of them hit in or around my 3" black bull. Close enough to call a "Group". Definitely an improvement,compared to the results I have been getting which are generally randomly placed hits that stay on or near an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper.
Given the difficulty getting this original T/C bbl. to shoot, I also brought my 32 in. Green Mountain "Drop-in" roundball bbl. After swapping barrels, I thought, what the heck....I'm going to shoot a few T/C maxi's. through the "roundball" bbl. just to see what happens.
Using the same 90 gn charge of 2f Goex, the first shot tore out the x-ring, the next 3 stayed in the black...each touching another. I don't know if that bbl. will stabilize the Maxi's to 100 yds. which I consider my personal limit with the iron sights...more testing required. It's definitely good to 50 !! One observation: the fit of the lubed Maxi's in the GM bbl. is overall quite "loose". I use a pretty heavy 3/8th's solid brass Range Rod, and found that after starting a Maxi part way down the bbl.,if I released my grip on the range rod...it would slowly continue to push the Maxi down the bore. Noticing how "loose" they were, my first thought was "well, these aren't going to shoot worth a darn". Imagine my surprise when the next 4 shots were all touching..!! My goal is to get a heavy conical load for the 1:48 T/C bbl., NOT use my GM drop-in. Oh well, "the best laid plans" etc.
Meantime, my Brother is sending me a box of Hornady Great Plains 385 gn. HB-HP bullets to try in the 1:48 T/C bbl. Can't find those around here either..but he lucked into a bunch recently.
I know this has been long and wordy, but out of respect for the responses....I wanted to report back.
The quest continues. Thanks again for the help.

 

[roundball]

Excellent feedback...sounds like you're doing a thorough job of testing.
NOTE:
If you're not already aware of it, conicals are notorious for the potential of moving off the powder charge while walking / moving / handling the rifle when out hunting, and creating the condition of a 'bore obstruction'.
Strongly suggest you consider adding a tight fitting 'over shot card' or something to keep that conical wedged down tight on the powder...and/or constantly check/re-seat it while out moving around.
When I tested a .40cal x 200grn REAL in my .40cal deep groove round ball barrel last year, I had the same issue and used a .45cal Oxyoke wool wad wedged down on it to hold it place...no adverse effect on accuracy at all.

 

[Don Steele]

Excellent reminder Roundball. Thank You. Given the loose fit of the T/C Maxi's in my GM bbl, IF I decide to use that combination to hunt with, I'll work out some kind of wad to hold everything in place. I was very surprised how easily the Maxi's went down the bbl, even after firing a number of shots. I was also very surprised that such a relatively loose fit gave such great precision @ 50 yds.

 

[azmntman]

any melted telfon tape residue?

 

[Mad Professor]

The 385gr buffalo bullets work real well for me but that is in a fast twist GM barrel.

TOTW has oxyoke lubed over powder patches.