My try at first build

[Mike Burns]

I'm gonna try this kit from TOTW after the holidays. It's a Hawken fullstock plains rifle. I'm sure I'll be asking some ?'s as I go. I'm thinking .54 over the .50. Choices one has to make.

 

[Goldhunter]

Would be fun. What is your building experience? The masters on here advise that the Hawken isn't a good first build, especially to do correctly.

However, if being 100% historically accurate isn't important, and just building to have fun and get a build under your belt IS important, then go for it! :thumbsup: They are a great gun.

 

[thewho66]

Most of the people were refering to the half-stock hawkins as not a good starting project. Mainly due to the underrib and the fitting of a nose cap. The one he has pictured is no different that any other long rifle. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mike Burns]

Other than putting an L&R lock in my GPR I have no building experience. I've read that full stocks are easier than half stocks. I gotta start somewhere. In the kit the stock is inletted 90% or so. I picked that one because to me it's simple yet rugged. Brass furniture, patchboxes, and the like really don't appeal to me. I shoot longbows, simple yet very effective.

 

[Dane]

The biggest concern with any Hawken style rifle is the breech.

If it has a hooked breech, it can rapidly become your demise.

If it's a standard breech and normal touch hole, it's pretty much like any long rifle.

Hope this helps.

 

[grey8833]

Dane: Ditto

But the hooked breech can be done with a few tricks. The whole project is easier if the barrel is straight. A tapered barrel adds to the hooked breech issue.

Anyway, MikeBurnsie, when you get started, just ask. Lots of people here have done hooked breeches.

Mike

 

[rich pierce]

I respectfully disagree that a flint Hawken is as easy as any other longrifle. The hooked breech, long tang, long double set trigger plate, wedges instead of pins, and inletting a deeply curved, steel buttplate are all more advanced tasks. I love a Hawken, I purely do, but I only ever built three, and won't do it again unless I get really inspired.

It is rare indeed that the trigger plate is properly curved, and when you bend the plate, there is the possibility that the triggers don't engage properly anymore. If you think about it, the length of pull and etc will affect the angle of the underside of the buttstock, assuming you use the same length buttplate.

That's just one of the challenges.

I always advise building a trade gun or musket for the first build, or better yet, putting together a kit like the GPR etc.

 

[Zonie]

Rich lists many of the reasons I have no desire to build a Hawken, even a fullstock.

IMO, an easier rifle to build would be a Leman Fullstock with its pinned barrel.
Pecatonica River offers this with the L&R Leman percussion lock but for a few extra bucks a L&R Late English Flintlock with Double throat cock.
This lock is correct for the Leman and it is interchangable with the Leman Percussion lock so the pre cut lock mortice would work with it.

The only other issue with the Pecatonica River Leman Full stock is it is set up for a single trigger however even this can be got around by buying a double set trigger. These triggers may have an issue with the trigger guard but by talking to **** Greensides at PR I'm sure he could provide a suitable trigger guard that would work with the double set trigger.

The Leman fullstock uses a standard tang breechplug which is a lot easier to inlet than the long tang styles used on the Hawken.

Something to think about.

 

[Mike Burns]

Thanks for the input. Me thinks I should pick up a gun builders book first. Any suggestions?

 

[Zonie]

The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle by Dave Ehrig, Dave Miller and Chuck Dixon is a very good book that goes thru all of the various things that you will need to know.
It isn't very expensive and PR (among others) sells it.

 

[schloss]

I really like "The Gunsmith of Grenville County." Lots of pictures and explanation are my main reasons. Pictures, pictures, pictures, I like pictures.

I'm just beginning my first build, and I'm actually referencing "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle" a lot more as I'm getting into the work. I think it addresses things really well.

Just make sure you pay attention to the advice these guys give, even if it's a little discouraging. When I decided to do this about 5 years ago (yeah, it's taken me that long to finally get the parts to start building), I wanted to build a Hawken. I liked all the iron furniture and lack of fancy stuff, etc. I'm doing a JP Beck instead, and I've developed a really big appreciation for the longrifle. If I enjoy this process enough, I think I'd like to try a Hawken at some point.

Anyway, my advice from extremely limited experience is to keep things really simple. I've been involved in woodworking and metalworking since I was a kid, but this is a whole new challenge. It's fun, but it's slow. I don't want to make any real big mistakes.

 

[Mike Burns]

Thanks for the feedback. I've been looking at the TOTW and Pecatonica River trade rifles. Both seem like nice kits. I would like a double set trigger. I'll have to make some phone calls to see if thats an option. First I need to order some literature.

 

[rdillion]

What makes the hooked breech that difficult? I've built a couple of long rifles and have not found them to be that hard. I also make my own trigger guards, sights, ramrod pipes, etc. These are on southern mountain rifles and pretty plain. I have 9 years experiance in sheet metal fab. and have been working on and building furniture all my life. I have been wanting to build a plains rifle but, when I hear about how hard they are it scares me away.

 

[BLAHMAN]

.

It is rare indeed that the trigger plate is properly curved, and when you bend the plate, there is the possibility that the triggers don't engage properly anymore.

That's just one of the challenges.

quote]


Aint that the truth! I got a freebie set once and put them into a longrifle, not a Hawken stlye...dang thing fought me every which way. Woulda been better off just buying a fresh set....finally got them rascals to work, but boy-oh-boy the work I hadda put into them :shake:

 

[rich pierce]

What makes the hooked breech that difficult? I have been wanting to build a plains rifle but, when I hear about how hard they are it scares me away.

1) The hooked breech must be stabilized when inletting it. No biggie but extra work.

2) Inletting a long teardrop tang such as was present on real Hawkens is no treat whether hooked or not. It's a very long profile to get perfect curvature to match the intended wrist top-line, and because it tapers back toward the comb then widens, it has to go straight down, not down and back.

3) 2 bolts fastening the tang to the guard. More chances to miss the target.

 

[DEWB]

If you are thinking about a leman you might want to check out tenneesse valley muzzleloading. There kits have alot of the work already done.The breech plug is fitted, the touch hole liner or drum is drilled and tapped, the dovetails for the sights are cut, the holes for the staples are drilled and the stock is pre inlet. As far as books I just got a copy of the longrifle construction manual by Susanne Warren-Bicio. I think it goes into more detail than the art of building the penn. long rifle that I also have. This Lady really knows her stuff and she is also willing to help and answer questions. You can get the book from muzzleloaders builers supply and Susanne can also supply you with a good kit. I hope this helps. DEW