My two cents.

[JimG]

I've tried to stay silent on this as I am tired of conflict in regards to the outdoors and 2nd Amendment rights. I've fought our idiot politicians here in IL for a few years now concerning gun laws and it's worn me down. I like this forum because most of that style of conflict is not there. That said I've learned a lot about battling it out with your adversary on issues such as this. I think most of you are missing the boat on Bridges and Wakeman. And I mean no disrespect to any of you in that regard, I just think that you are not looking deep enough into the issue. Both of these simpletons are NOT hunters/sportsmen/outdoorsmen/woodsmen. They are nothing more than killers of game animals. It's that simple. It's not about scopes or inlines or roundballs. It's the fact that they LIKE to kill with the least amount of personal involvement needed. IE-sniper like. My neighbor is the same way. He kills as many deer as possible/legal and does nothing with the dead animal. He just likes to kill deer. Most people who I've met who are of this mindset like the ultra fast bows with red dot sights (yes it's possible if you were not aware), inlines with pellets/sabots/scopes, shotguns that really are nothing more than another form of a centerfire rifle (rifled barrel with sabots and scopes), etc. It's not about "hunting", it's about shooting an animal the easiest way possible. My nieghbor like to shoot pheasants. Guess what he throws them away in the garbage can. I know several folks like this. They all own similar weapons and "hunt" the same way. They all feel as though their manhood counts on killing the biggest buck, the most birds, biggest turkey, etc. I'm not saying that if you own an inline you are a killer and if you own a flinter you are a true sportsman BUT it does tend to work out that way. Numbers don't lie. And I like to work with numbers (I'm real odd that way :youcrazy: ). It's not about hunting guys, it's about killing animals. The difference is black and white. You can't battle it out with those two thinking the way you do. They could care less about " energy at 100 yards". It's got nothing to do with humane kills. It's all about the simple fact that they like to kill. And kill the easiest way possible. Why else would you need to hunt multiple states and kill upwards of 30 deer a year and not eat a single one?? Just my opinion ok.

Before anyone flames me into a cinder, let me state for the record- I love hunting/fishing/trapping/camping. I do all of it. I am NOT anti-hunting. I am anti-wastefullness, anti-bravado, anti-ego trip, and do not like the actual death of the animal but will do so willingly for the hunt and the meat. I just don't like the wanton destruction of life for no reason other than strictly for entertainment purposes which is the only reason as to why people like Bridges and Wakeman 'hunt'.

 

[renovato]

I know way too many people like that myself. One thing though, even a rifled shotgun or inline muzzleloader is no match for a high powered centerfire. All centerfire shooters aren't just "killers" even though they have the firepower to "snipe" if they wanted to. Many are fine, ethical, sporting hunters. I don't think the choice of weapon creates the man. More like that type of man picks a weapon that suits his style (or lack thereof).

 

[TN.Frank]

Yep, "Fair Chase" has seemed to have lost it's meaing as of late. There was a time when a man would give a game animal a fair contest but today it's all about how many you can kill, not HOW you did it. I like Recurve bows, flintlocks(smoothbore none the less.) and if I go out for big gun I'll be using a rifled slug barrel on my shotgun, not a high power rifle with a scope. Mainly because I can get a rifled shotgun barrel with iron sights for around $100 bucks and a new H.P. rifle would run me well over $200. Still, I'd be limited to around 100 yrds. so I'll have to do my part to get close enough to make a kill.
I don't have a problem with guys using inlines with sabots, pellets and scopes......during Big Gun season but during Muzzle loading season I personally think that they've got No Place in the woods with the rest of us Traditional shooters. JMHO, YMMV.

 

[JimG]

Yes I agree with you. A 30-06or a .270 or a .xxx ulta short mag doo hickey will not turn you into a rabid killer. BUT those who think that way tend to gravitate towards the most modern 'hip' weapons because they either make it simpler/easier to kill OR there is the perception that a shot taken at exactly 103 yards as determined by a Nikon Laser 600 and shot from a T/C Encore powered by Shockey Gold and a 209 coupled with a Hornady SST AND a Bushnell elite 3x9x40 is somehow superior and will kill faster and easier than guessing that it's about 100 yards away and taking the shot with a T/C Hawken .50 caplock powered by Pyrodex RS and a CCI #11 cap coupled with a lead patched round ball and oh my word IRON SIGHTS. News flash- they both kill. It's just that it ain't cool with gramps 'ball gun'. Remember it's all about killing and how many/big are killed and how easy it is to do so while using the latest greatest. Hey it's easy to snipe that buck at 200 yards with the fore-mentioned Encore but you have to stalk (ie- hard to do) with the fore-mentioned Hawken.

 

[JimG]

Aging eyes, sidelock gun safety and discrimination (SP?, I'm getting tired) have nothing to do with the actual issue. It's just an easy set of excuses to force the powers that be to bend the rules to make it easier for them to carry on with what makes them happy- killing. I own many weapons. AR's, SKS's, modern shotguns, milsurp bolt guns, handguns of every sort, and a ML. There is a time and place for everything. If I hunt with my Rem 870 iron sighted smoothbore slug gun I need to get into range (75 yards or less). I could buy a scoped rifled slug gun and increase my range to maybe 150 yards. But why? I hunt, I'm not at war with Mr. Buck. If someone hunts wide open spaces then a .270 may be in order. Is a .300 WSM really going to kill that mule deer any quicker at 200 yards? Nope but many people do think so. It's all about being reasonable. However you can't reason with Bridges and Wakeman because I think the reason as to why most of us here hunt is NOT the same reason they have.

 

[shmrck1]

Jim,
I don't know why anyone would want to flame
you. I can't disagree with anything you have
said.IMHO
snake-eyes :hatsoff:

 

[mart]

JimG,

In every state I have lived in they had wanton waste laws that would fine someone for throwing pheasants in a garbage can or shooting deer and doing nothing with them. Does your state have the same and do they enforce the law? I know most wildlife enforcement units are overworked and understaffed but most take wildlife wastage pretty seriously and will act on information provided by concerned sportsmen.

Mart

 

[CrackStock]

Jim,

I think that you are among like minded people and you are surely among friends.

I think that most hunter safety instructors will tell you that we are clearly hunters who fall into the category of "method hunters" and are not prone to see eye to eye with the "limiting out" hunters.

CS

 

[ronrryan]

One factor to keep in mind is that many states REQUIRE shotguns in order to hunt. A large portion of New York state, for example, is shotguns only. Many men I knew changed over to rifled shotgun barrels. I never bothered because my Browning squareback shot very well at fifty yards, and that was about the limit of visibility.
The last couple of years I was able to go, I switched to a muzzleloader. Good smoke, Ron in Fla.

 

[Slamfire]

My old pardner in Californy and I shot a lot of deer. We fed 'em to our families. We didn't care much if they were trophy quality, just met the legal standard of one forked antler. My wife and I kept foster kids, and Victor had one of them "Yours, mine and ours families. We didn't NEED the meat, but it sure helped. We used long range rifles, cause in the west you often git more long range shots than close ones. :v
I know you weren't talkin' about us, we went fishin' once in a relatively new lake, and while catchin' our breakfast, some fellah came up and asked if we wanted a mess of bluegills, he was, he said, just gonna throw 'em away. We were pretty disgusted with him, but took the fish to keep 'em from bein' thrown on the bank. They sure made a wonderful fish fry that evenin'.

 

[renovato]

Yes I agree with you. A 30-06or a .270 or a .xxx ulta short mag doo hickey will not turn you into a rabid killer. BUT those who think that way tend to gravitate towards the most modern 'hip' weapons

Not trying to misquote you, just trimming a bit. I can relate to the mindset in a way, but I honestly can't say why. I remember in my younger years when my dad was still alive. He always loved the 1911 handguns. I, for some illogical reason, dispised them. I saw them as a relic of a bygone age, obsolete, and not worth owning. I was a 100% fan of the new high capacity wondernines and such. After about a decade of wasting my money on the newfangled guns, and shooting the 1911's side by side, I came to change my mind. Simply because the old pistols shot SO much better.

I don't know if it's our society, or maybe just human nature, that makes some of us want to throw out the past. But it sure plays a big part in a lot of people choices.

The odd part is I loved muzzleloaders since I was just a kid. In fact a muzzleloader was the first gun I asked for when my dad asked what I wanted for my birthday at about 12-13. He had bought me a .22 rifle and pistol and a shotgun. The guns a young boy "should have." He was stunned when I wanted a muzzleloader, as it hadn't been a family tradition until then. I've been hopelessly addicted ever since.

Hehe, sorry, rambling on. For some reason the thread brought back pleasant memories.

 

[RC]

states REQUIRE shotguns in order to hunt. A large portion of New York state, for example, is shotguns only.

Sadly ronrryan.. that is NOT the case in n.y. state anymore, a yr. ago 10 units went to rifle use, now it's almost the whole state,,cept down by that big city..I live in farm country, where it was shotgun only, now rifle,scares me! lots a lil hills these guys are shootin over, and from what I've heard then new fangled bullets can go a fer piece....check my house and barn everyday fer new holes..sad sad sad,,,and I never heard anything about it till the law was ALREADY changed! :cursing: :cursing: RC

 

[shmrck1]

slamfire,
Reminds me of a time when I was 10 or
12 years old and my dad took my brother and I to
a Lake he had heard about some 75/80 miles from
home. We got there early morning to fish for
crappies. We had fished for maybe 3 hours and caught maybe a half dozen. About this time two
guys walk by with flyrods and, I kid you not,two
bushel baskets full with crappies. My dad made the comment that it looked like they were going
to have a great fish fry. With that the one so
called fisherman said "fish fry hell, this is
garden fertilizer". :cursing:
About an hour after this, crappies started
biting like crazy, like they do. Between the 3
of us we caught aroung 50 in maybe 45 minutes.
Then just as quick as they started to bite they
quit. We took our fish home and I'll tell you
not one went in the garden.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[ronrryan]

RC, thanks for the clarification on NY state. I have not been able to hunt there for five years or so, every year I hope to go, but one medical thing or another pops up. My old crowd has mostly passed on, but the linch pin still has a camp and woodlot in Madison County, gorgeous ridge full of deer. In the past I hunted a lot of the Catskills and the Adirondacks, saw every up-and-downstate season opener for fifty plus years. Wonderful memories, fine gentlemen, beautiful animals: who could ask for more (except for "one more season") Good smoke, ron in FL

 

[Bunyan]

I think its funny that nowadays those "new" rounds, like the .30-06 just aren't up to snuff anymore and .300 extra shorty uppity mag is the flavor of the week. I guess the deer are getting tougher to kill. I just put a new peep sight on one of my wildcats. its one of them new fangled winchester .30-30s. I hear it even shoots Smokeless powder!

 

[Stumpkiller]

states REQUIRE shotguns in order to hunt. A large portion of New York state, for example, is shotguns only.

Sadly ronrryan.. that is NOT the case in n.y. state anymore, a yr. ago 10 units went to rifle use, now it's almost the whole state,,cept down by that big city..I live in farm country, where it was shotgun only, now rifle,scares me! lots a lil hills these guys are shootin over, and from what I've heard then new fangled bullets can go a fer piece....check my house and barn everyday fer new holes..sad sad sad,,,and I never heard anything about it till the law was ALREADY changed! :cursing: :cursing: RC

Not just around the "Big City". Most of the Central/Finger Lakes and west (except for two counties) is rifle verboten. I live in Port Crane in management unit 7S and we are still a shotgun only (and pistol and m/l) area. I can go west still in unit 7S to Owego/Nichols and hunt with a rifle. Did that last year (first it was allowed). Was all practiced up at 150 yards and took two bucks: 10 yards and 40 yards, both in the pouring rain. :haha: Oh yeah, that .30 cal. bolt action extended my range all over the place. :haha: When it's not raining I take either my New Englander or my Lehigh flintlock.