Mystery maker on Northwest Trade Gun?

[MStriebel]

Hi All,

In my search for an authentic Indian trade gun I came across a gun that looks and feels legitimate to me. The problem is it so beat to hell that I am having a tough time determining the origins on this old gun.

I thought some of the experts on the forum might have some ideas on the origins of this old gun or be able to point me in the right direction for further research.

Here are the basic details:
1) Around 0.60 caliber
2) 41.25" barrel length
3) The barrel marks are pretty difficult to read, but I believe they are the post-1813 Birmingham proof and view marks.
4) There is a fox in circle with some letters below it, but it is unlike any "fox in circle" mark I have seen on a trade gun Charles Hanson’s, The Northwest Gun; Gale’s For Trade and Treaty; or James Hanson’s Firearms of the Fur Trade.
5) Unfortunately, the markings on the lock are so worn that it is very difficult make out what they are. There is an SC on the lock that is clear but little else I am able to make out with my lousy eyesight.

My initial guess was that this may have been a trade gun made by some Belgian gunmaker and exported to America in the 1820s-1840s for use by the American Fur Co., the Chouteau Co. of St. Louis, etc. However, there do not seem to be any Belgian proof marks on the gun, so now I am leaning towards the idea that this gun was made one of the many Birmingham firms that exported guns to America during that era.

I sure would feel a lot better about purchasing a gun like this if I felt I had a true feel for when or who made it rather than just my guess.

Any thoughts from any of the experts on the forum may have or ideas on where I might go to research this further would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Joseph golcher lock made in phila.
I can't tell what the proofs are but the barrel has a spiral pattern like a forge welded barrel

 

[MStriebel]

zimmerstutzen,

Brilliant job in solving the question that had me stumped on the origin of the lock for days in just a matter of minutes. To better educate myself, can you tell me what are the key factors that clued you in that it was a Golcher lock.

From what I know of the history of the Eagle Gun Works, a Golcher lock would seem to indicate the gun was made in America circa 1844-1860. If the proofs on the barrel are indeed Birmingham proofs, have you ever heard of American gunmakers using imported Birmingham barrels on their guns?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The one picture of the lock, I can see JOS GO

And I have two old guns with Goulcher Locks His firm made thousands of locks for sale to gunsmiths and makers all over the country. Some were used for new guns and some used to convert flintlocks.

Remington during the same period, made thousands of barrels to be sold to gunsmiths for use as new build or replacements.

Other parts were imported for use by gunsmiths, including trigger guards and butt plates. (a member here posted an ad from a colonial era newspaper containing the announcement of them being for sale) There is no reason to believe that barrels were not imported for the same purpose. Then again, your gun could have started life as one thing and had w new or used lock replacement, maybe a stock replacement at one time,

In the 1960's and 1970's there were a great many long guns around that were cobbled together from available parts either back in the day or more recently. An old Stoeger's cat I have indicates that several hundred original unused flint locks were found in Belgium and they were being made into muskets in the 1950's for sale around the world. (Whether true or not I certainly don't know, but they did sell the guns for a few years.)

Even as late as the early 1980's, Dixie Gun works had stocks of unused original barrels from European factories. Some complete with breech plugs and tangs. (I bought 6 old 28ga barrels for $28.00 and swapped them off over the years.)

As for your gun, it looks to me like the stock and barrel were made as a unit back in the day. The lock is probably a replacement. But a replacement done back in the day by a frontier gun smith. Guns become worn, parts break, folks got them fixed.

Many such guns were purchased for their parts and stripped back in the 1970's. Especially the ones in better shape with usable locks and hardware. Yours probably survived because the lock and parts were in too bad of condition to be worth resale.

 

[MStriebel]

Hi All,

I came across some new information that may provide some better idea on the history of this old gun,

I came across on Gunbroker.com an ad for a current auction on a M1808 US Contract Flintlock Musket by Ethan Stillman, Burlington, Connecticut, .69 cal smoothbore, mfg. 1808-1812. The S.C. apparently stands for “State Contract” as the guns were made for the state of Connecticut. There was also an ES stamped on the barrel of the guns that Stillman made for the Connecticut contract. Please see the first three photos attached below for reference.

I then found a 1977 Burlington, Connecticut newspaper article that gave some good background information on Ethan Stillman. I will attach it in a separate post. It appears that he started operations in the 1790's with his brother and then continued to operate until sometime during the War of 1812 or soon thereafter. I believe this is when he sadly had to leave the business because his diary stats in reference to his War of 1812 era contract with Connecticut "I completed my contract and discharged my debts but it took my farm to do it."

As the 1977 article states, Ethan Stillman had a contract for some 2,500 muskets, but the only confirmed shipment was for the 825 he delivered in 1812. The author of the article speculated that because his diary entry said “completed my contract” that perhaps he shipped all 2,500 muskets but the record of those other shipments was lost.

If Ethan Stillman had made the barrel of this trade gun, I would have to believe that he would have stamped it with an “ES” just as he did on the muskets he made for the state contract. After looking at the stamps on the barrel till my eyes glazed over, I feel they are most likely the 1813 and later proof and view marks for Birmingham as show on page 56 of Hanson’s the Northwest Gun. The fourth photo attached below shows the marks as listed in Hanson's book and the last photo shows the best image I could get of the proof marks.

If my speculation is right on the barrel, then we have an 1812 +/- Ethan Stillman lock with an 1813 or later Birmingham made barrel. I have never come across any documentation of Ethan Stillman making any trade rifles. However, if I was Mr. Stillman -- who was apparently struggling to keep his business afloat and who possibly had a bunch of extra locks for the contract with the state of Connecticut on his hands -- I would being trying to sell anything I could make, with whatever parts I could scrounge up. to whoever would buy.

The only problem is that if Ethan Stillman’s business did actually go under sometime during or soon after the War of 1812, that would not seem to offer much of an opportunity for Stillman to purchase 1813 or later gun barrels from our friends across the Atlantic that were was busily at work burning down Washington DC at the time. However, it is my understanding that the War of 1812 was none too popular among large segments of the population in New England and smuggling in the area was not uncommon, so I suppose it is not entirely impossible that the barrel was imported before the end of the war.

It seems to me we have two possibilities on this musket (although I certainly welcome any additional thoughts)

Possibility #1 ”“ Stillman made the trade gun in a period very soon after the close of the War of 1812 with a Birmingham made barrel. (I suppose it also possible another unknown gunmaker in the area may have purchased the extra locks after Stillman’s business closed and married those locks with some Birmingham barrels to make trade guns at some time circa 1815-1820.
Possibility #2 ”“ Perhaps there were spare locks sold off when Stillman closed his business, and those locks where eventually used as replacements on the gun.

Have any of the folks on the Muzzleloadig Forum ever heard of a Stillman trade gun or have any thoughts on the most likely scenario for the story behind this old gun?[/color]

 

[MStriebel]

HISTORICAL SOCIETY SEEKS TO PURCHASE RARE MUSKET
Bristol Press, pages 8-10
-
1977, by James Klaneski[/b]
BURLINGTON: The Burlington Historical Society has organized a special drive to raise money for the purchase of a rare flintlock musket manufactured here between 1808 and 1812. Members of the Society and community are being asked for their support in the purchase of the musket manufactured by Ethan Stillman. Stillman was one of the seventeen children, he came to Burlington in 1803 belonging to the Seventh Day Baptists community which settled in the vicinity of Covey and Lyon Road.
(He came to Farmington first with his brother Amos and had a contract for guns before 1803) Society President Lois Humphrey first became acquainted with the Stillman Musket manufacturing firm through Surveyor Merton Hodge of Unionville. According to Hodge, she said, the shop was located along the Old Turnpike Road (Route 4) just west of Lyons Road. The shop was built on the south side of the road, she said, near Bunnell Brook, and the Stillman house across the road to the north.

Burlington land records show, Mrs. Humphrey said, that Stillman owned 25 acres and a house on the north side of the road, with nine acres and a shop on the south. The old timers of Burlington, she added, remember that as recently as 50 or 60 years ago the remains of the Stillman dam were visible on Bunnell Brook where the shop once stood.
Proof that Ethan and his brother Amos belonged to the seventh Day Baptist church came from an old record book of that church dated 1796 and now in the possession of a Burlington resident.

According to those records, she added, both brothers helped with the building of the Baptist church on Covey Road which was the first church ever to be organized within the Burlington town lines. Additional proof, Mrs. Humphrey added, came from the Stillman descendants, with whom she has corresponded seeking additional information. According to family genealogical records, Mrs. Humphrey said, the Stillman's were born in and came to Burlington from Westerly Rhode Island as did the rest of the Baptist community. Ironically, however, Humphrey noted, the Stillman family was unaware that Ethan and Amos had been gun manufacturers until she told them.

During his life Ethan was married three times and had nine children. His first wife was
Polly Lewis of Burlington. They were married in 1794 and had six children. Polly died in 1813 and is buried in the Seventh Day Baptist cemetery on Upson Road. In 1814 Stillman married Mehitable Teft who was born in Rhode Island. She bore him three children before her death in 1821.

BUILT GUN SHOP
In 1803 Ethan built a gun shop in Burlington for the making and repairing of muskets. His first contract with the federal government had already been in 1798.
Through her own research in the National Archives, Mrs. Humphrey learned that Ethan and Amos had contracted to provide arms for the militia, and that the contract was completed with the Stillman's delivering 525 Charlesville pattern muskets at a cost of $13.75 each.
A second contract with the federal government was made by Ethan alone on September 14, 1808 following the death of his brother. At this time a new government program provided for contracts leading to the manufacture of 74,000 muskets in all. Under this second contract Stillman agreed to supply 2,500 muskets, to be delivered to the receiver of public arms in New Haven at the rate of 500 per year for five years. Some 825
muskets are recorded to have been delivered by October 7, 1812. Mrs. Humphrey said, at a price of $10.75 each. Those muskets were all marked on the lock plate "E.STILLMAN."

By the time of the second contract, the federal government had begun requiring all private contractors of the musket to stamp their identification mark on the lock plate in an attempt to eliminate possible manufacturing problems. According to gun expert Arcadi Gluckman, Mrs. Humphrey said, some of the muskets made under the 1798 contracts were of poor workmanship and quality. The government took steps, she added, to insure identification of the manufacturer and to also standardize the muskets for general use.
While working to complete the second contract, Stillman encountered financial difficulty and was forced to mortgage everything he owned, Mrs. Humphrey said, including his tools and materials.

All records show that Stillman only delivered 825 muskets of the 2500 for which he had
contracted. (The first delivery) But Mrs. Humphrey believes that the entire contract may have eventually been filled since in 1812 Ethan was able to pay off his entire mortgage. (Later information from Mr. Stillman's diary, "I completed my contract and discharged my debts but it took my farm to do it.")

Very few of the Stillman muskets are known to have survived in their original
condition, Mrs. Humphrey said. The musket on which the Historical Society now has an option is the property of a gun dealer in Cornwall, Connecticut. It has been inspected by members of the Society and was found to be in very good condition. Unlike many m
uskets, it has never been converted from a flintlock to percussion firing and, according to the Society president, only the ramrod and a single screw appear to have been replaced making the gun a particularly valuable piece. The Society first learned of the musket through a gun collector in Harwinton. Robert Dailey approached Mrs. Humphrey recently inquiring about the Stillman gun shop and Mrs. Humphrey reportedly told him what she knew of the Stillman brothers and of their operations before casually mentioning that the Historical Society would be very interested in acquiring one of the muskets that had been manufactured in Burlington.
If purchased, Mrs. Humphrey said, the Stillman musket will be placed on permanent display at the Brown Elton Tavern as part of the tavern acquisition program. (The musket was purchased, and is now in the town vault, cost $750.00.L.R.A.)

 

[DickS]

I would agree that it is a Birmingham made NW gun with a replaced lock.
Don't know what is going on with the serpent, though.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Wow, When I look at the pictures on my laptop, all I see are the S.C. When I look at the same picture on my phone, it looks like JOS G. But the information looks like a match on the lock for sure. I guess sometimes pitting makes things look different.

Congrats on the detective work.