Mystery Muzzleloader

[Vairochana]

Ok, I picked up this little gem yesterday.
After initial research I determined that it is a French pattern back action lock (possibly 1853),
I suspected that it was a "Zulu" trade gun, It was suggested that it may have some Belgian origins also.
There are a number of proof and other marks which I will describe below, significantly tho they all appear to be British-the only one I can identify is the Birmingham BP proof so I am assuming it was rebarelled in Britain perhaps for the colonies and that is how it got to Oz.

Proofs and other significant marks (these are mostly under the barrel):
There is a Birmingham BP proof.
the name J.Cook
the name ?.Turner
WW
there is a V near J.Cook
three parallel straight score lines
T.T
6 or 9 in an oval
a crown (queens?) with a B below then SA below then 4 below forming a diamond with no border (this one is all over the furniture)
33
22
some other marks I can't see clearly
and a serial no
inside the barrel channel, pressed into the wood is a faint name Cookson.

The lock has no identifiable marks except the date 1874 and the Crown mark described above.
The triggerguard has 12 on it.

The barrel is approx .60 with rifling under the rust/patina.
The front sight has been ground of at some time.
The ladder sight looks a little odd-see pics, no "battle sight"
The triggerguard looks French also
Happy to hear suggestions

Pics:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Quite an interesting piece there. Not much I can tell you except that the stock is of Enfield pattern as is the rear sight. The hammer could have come from an Enfield musket and the barrel band did. The mark with the Crown over B-SA should denote Birmingham Small Arms. The lock is definitely French pattern. "Cookson" was the stocker. Looks like someone made an all new rifle from surplus parts. The maker may have gotten hold of some un-mortised Enfield stocks to mount everything on and cut them back.
:hmm:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Looks like a "Bannerman-Type" sporterized European musket.

Here is a site that has a selection of proofmarks by nationality. The Birmingham proof of the likely era would be a crown over the letter R.
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/archives/Proofmarks.pdf

 

[moosenuggets]

That lock looks familiar. I have one from what was definitely a cobbled together mess of parts.

I think mine has more discernible marks, but I can't look at it for a few more weeks.

Inside view

End view, has a little damage from dry firing.

The rifle from which it came.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I had in mind. Neatly done job though.

 

[Tumblernotch]

That looks like a French lock to me, though it could be Belgian made. Does th ebarrel on that rifle have any marks on it? It appears to be what I've found on Austrian rifle-muskets. Most likely Belgian made.

 

[moosenuggets]

The barrel says "Winchester" with several patent dates. Family lore says my grandfather put it together from parts. The stock has lead ball in it.

The lock profile looks to be a dead ringer for the lock on the rifle originally posted. One big give away was the triangular nut on the left side of stock (mine has that too, but it was hidden under a brass plate).

I'm guessing these locks were mass produced and many different gun assemblers used them? So there is no "right" or historically accurate model that it came off of...

I hope to get down to where this lock is in a few weeks and look at some of the markings in the hope that it will help the original poster with their research.

 

[moosenuggets]

I found this...

".58” Belgian Pattern 1857 percussion Minnie rifle. Back action lock of regulation French form is dated 1858. Walnut stock with regulation iron furniture and three spring retained brass barrel bands the centre one having a sling swivel. Four groove Minnie rifled barrel with serial number 1687 to the barrel tang is fitted with folding rear sight. Made in Belgium to the French pattern these rifle muskets saw wide service through out Europe and were bought in great numbers by both sides in the American civil war where they gave good service in the north until replaced in the front lines with Springfield and Enfield rifles while in the south they saw service until the end of the war. In good condition with good bore, nice clean stock and fading blue to the metal work. A nice example of a classic European service rifle of the Crimean war era and one of the most popular rifles used in the civil war in the states."

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

moosenuggets, don't believe everything you read. The French and Belgian muskets were very scarce if not non-existent in Confederate service, they were almost an exclusively Federal-used item. The chief objection to the French and Belgian guns was their "non-standard caliber" - .71 as opposed to our .69, usable ammunition was not available.

The gun shown in your last post is not a common item and I am not sure what origin it has but it is undoubtedly Belgian-made and possibly modified after leaving the maker but it is not a Belgian military gun for their service. While we often laugh at Belgian guns, there is no doubt that they were capable of very fine work and that their work for their own military and militaries of their customers was done to the highest standards of the day. They did contract work for both France and Great Britain making the standard arms used by both countries. French military guns were also of an extremely high quality.

 

[Mathias]

Hi moosenuggets

That rifle in your picatures looks just like the Swedish m/1855, i´m not saying it is but some 5000 was orderd from Belgium, later they were made by bouth Husqvarna and Carl Gustaf armory.They were designated M/1856 and M/1857
Some facts
Cal 15.5mm
The sight is a folding lader sight graded for 180-240-600 meters

Just my 5 cents (or "crowns") :hatsoff:
Mathias

 

[Skaldi]

Do you use gun oil to clean up the yellow parts?

 

[Shine]

If by yellow parts you mean brass then no don't use gun oil. Use Brasso. But be careful polishing metal and taking of the patina will ruin the original collector value. If you are just going to hang whatever you have over the fire place then your choice.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Do you have a picture of what you are seeing as a Birmingham proof mark?

An original Birmingham proof mark for blackpowder only for a mid 19th century gun wouldbe a crown over a scripted BP.

Stumpkiller, the crown over the letter R is for guns submitted for re-proofing and passed.

Off the cuff, I would think this gun Belgian.