Navy Arms Charleville

[FlinterNick]

Hi Everyone.

I picked up a navy arms Charleville 1766/63 pattern Charleville. The stock is two pieces, The forearm is pretty chewed up.

Dunlap no longer duplicates the Charleville stocks or forearms. Anyone have any references for duplications of a 1766 Charleville ?

 

[Khufu]

My 1766 Charleville has a one piece stock, are you sure its a Charleville replica?

 

[FlinterNick]

Yeap, its stamps Navy Arms at the Breech. The seam for the forearm is beneath the rear barrel band. I've seen these before, it the 1990 production run by Miruko sold by Dixie Gun Works and Navy Arms. Excellent Reproduction ! beats the Pedersoli Charleville out of the park.

 

[Khufu]

I have never purchased a Miruko muzzleloader but I had one given to me, it is of very poor quality and a very bad design with a 2 piece stock (square nuts welded on to the barrel to hold the stock on, poorly stamped brass nose cap that is badly fit etc.). I have several Pedersoli guns, though not front stuffers, they are of the highest quality (1874 sharps, and some 1873 Colt replicas as well as some cap and ball revolvers). My Charleville is an exact replica, made in Canada and is even the same weight and uses the same French wood for the stock. most Navy arms guns, and all of mine (a 12 ga side by side, 2 cap and ball revolvers and a Zouave US Model 1863 Rifle) are all Itialian (Pedersoli or Pietta). Most Japanese replicas I have seen are not very close to the original ( 2 piece stock)
the only way I can see to fix your issue is to fill all the gouges and dings with plastic wood and send it to a stock maker that has a duplicator and have him clone your wood with a decent piece (pieces) my guess there will be a $100 setup fee and the cost of the stock. you will likely have to finish the inlet a little and stain and oil the stock, but it should be better than new afterward.

 

[FlinterNick]

I have never purchased a Miruko muzzleloader but I had one given to me, it is of very poor quality and a very bad design with a 2 piece stock (square nuts welded on to the barrel to hold the stock on, poorly stamped brass nose cap that is badly fit etc.). I have several Pedersoli guns, though not front stuffers, they are of the highest quality (1874 sharps, and some 1873 Colt replicas as well as some cap and ball revolvers). My Charleville is an exact replica, made in Canada and is even the same weight and uses the same French wood for the stock. most Navy arms guns, and all of mine (a 12 ga side by side, 2 cap and ball revolvers and a Zouave US Model 1863 Rifle) are all Itialian (Pedersoli or Pietta). Most Japanese replicas I have seen are not very close to the original ( 2 piece stock)
the only way I can see to fix your issue is to fill all the gouges and dings with plastic wood and send it to a stock maker that has a duplicator and have him clone your wood with a decent piece (pieces) my guess there will be a $100 setup fee and the cost of the stock. you will likely have to finish the inlet a little and stain and oil the stock, but it should be better than new afterward.

Ive seen plenty of charleville origninals with the forearms replaced; these muskets were designed to serviceable for a long useful life; which is why so many were converted.

In regards to quality this musket has probably the best charleville lock I’ve ever used; mainspring is incredibly strong.

The barrel is very close to an original 1763 too pretty thick and heavy.

The nose cap/ front band is steel no stamp on it.

There’s no bolt connecting forearm; it’s epoxied.

The butt stock and lock mortise are walnut forearm too.

Only other flaw is the rammer spring is missing but I can fix that.

Dunlap suggested using a 1795 Springfield forearm for $50.

 

[Khufu]

while similar, the 1795 springfield is not an exact copy of the Charleville. the bayonet lug is on the bottom of the barrel on the springfield and the top on the '66 Charleville. there are small differences in the barrel bands as well. there are likely other small differences that I am unaware of. be careful the stocks may be different. the '66 Charleville had a thin barrel, part of the pattern change from the '63 to lighten the '66, the springfield also had the thin barrel like the '66. the springfield stock may not be inletted enough if you have the thick barrel. There is no forearm on the Charleville pattern muskets, they all had one piece stocks. the forestock is generally the part of the stock in front of the lock. all Japanese locks I have seen use coil springs , or a combination of flat and coil, so lock inlet may be different. my Japanese flinter has coils and is smooth as butter, but the geometry is off a little and most sparks miss the pan, and the frizzen is not hard enough and has fewer sparks than I like, but it usually fires ( with a little lag). considering your stock was glued, you would be better off having it duplicated in a one piece format. My Ramrod has no spring it rubs against a pin through the stock and screws into a lug on the trigger guard. good luck repairing it, I hope it works out ok for you.

 

[FlinterNick]

while similar, the 1795 springfield is not an exact copy of the Charleville. the bayonet lug is on the bottom of the barrel on the springfield and the top on the '66 Charleville. there are small differences in the barrel bands as well. there are likely other small differences that I am unaware of. be careful the stocks may be different. the '66 Charleville had a thin barrel, part of the pattern change from the '63 to lighten the '66, the springfield also had the thin barrel like the '66. the springfield stock may not be inletted enough if you have the thick barrel. There is no forearm on the Charleville pattern muskets, they all had one piece stocks. the forestock is generally the part of the stock in front of the lock. all Japanese locks I have seen use coil springs , or a combination of flat and coil, so lock inlet may be different. my Japanese flinter has coils and is smooth as butter, but the geometry is off a little and most sparks miss the pan, and the frizzen is not hard enough and has fewer sparks than I like, but it usually fires ( with a little lag). considering your stock was glued, you would be better off having it duplicated in a one piece format. My Ramrod has no spring it rubs against a pin through the stock and screws into a lug on the trigger guard. good luck repairing it, I hope it works out ok for you.

.

This one has a main spring V-Spring. The barrel on this one weights about 5 lbs, its pretty thick but most of the repro's have thicker barrels than the originals for safety reasons.

I've seen several original pattern Charleville muskets.

I'll post pics when I'm done, Gona refinish and make some detailed changes. I'm going to add the ramrod spring to the lower barrel band as was done with the 1770 - 1774 patterns. Rifle Shoppe has replacement forearms for the 1766 patterns too. The forearms are made with extra wood, so I'll need to fit it.

From my readings, the 1766 (light 1763) Charleville was sent back periodically to the French armors for alterations modifications. Two of the modifications were adding a spring to the rear barrel band, adding a spoon spring to the rear band for earlier 1766 patterns that didn't have one lugged under the barrel.

Then of course, defray the barrel remove markings.

 

[NJLight]

Nicholas: I would not worry too much about the stock unless as you said it is just too banged up. All of the Miruko charlevilles had a 2 piece stock. The forestock is pinned with 2 wooden pins to the rear half. I bought mine in 1977 and the stock separated once about 10 years age. I re glued it and it is good to go. All 3 of my sons have Miruko charlevilles as do many men in our Unit and I will agree with the above statement that they are probably the best repro out there. The only issues we have ever had we things like the frizzen wearing out from use, bayonet lug falling off. Little things like that. Being that the forestock is not super complicated a good wood worker could probably make one for you. Just a point to note.....the only brass on any of the Miruko Charlevilles was the front sight that was attached to the front barrel band. No matter how you look at it they were great reproductions.....at least in my opinion.

 

[fireman1]

tag for updates.

 

[mrstang01]

Nicholas: I would not worry too much about the stock unless as you said it is just too banged up. All of the Miruko charlevilles had a 2 piece stock. The forestock is pinned with 2 wooden pins to the rear half. I bought mine in 1977 and the stock separated once about 10 years age. I re glued it and it is good to go. All 3 of my sons have Miruko charlevilles as do many men in our Unit and I will agree with the above statement that they are probably the best repro out there. The only issues we have ever had we things like the frizzen wearing out from use, bayonet lug falling off. Little things like that. Being that the forestock is not super complicated a good wood worker could probably make one for you. Just a point to note.....the only brass on any of the Miruko Charlevilles was the front sight that was attached to the front barrel band. No matter how you look at it they were great reproductions.....at least in my opinion.

Where are you sourcing the Miruko Charlevilles from?

 

[FlinterNick]

Where are you sourcing the Miruko Charlevilles from?

Navy Arms .... not sure what your meaning by sourcing is ?

 

[mrstang01]

Navy Arms .... not sure what your meaning by sourcing is ?

I meant where to purchase them from. Does Navy Arms normally carry them?

 

[FlinterNick]

They’re no longer in production.

You see them auction on gunbroker.

 

[NJLight]

The Miruko's I have gotten recently have all been found online or gun shows.

 

[FlinterNick]

Every now and then on EBAY you’ll see some miruko Charleville parts, locks and barrels. If you come across the locks and barrels they’re almost interchangible with Jess Mellot’s 1766 Charleville stock and parts.

The miruko barrels were very well designed almost an exact copy of the original taper of 1.3-.860.

 

[SirAndrewTheMad]

I'm currently looking for a stock for my Navy Arms Charleville. I already have the lock, barrel and other metal parts. I have not had any luck. Who is this Jess Mellot? Any other leads for a stock that would work, or even be close? (Sorry if this is very obvious, I'm not a frequently flyer on this forum, and haven't turned anything up on google)

 

[FlinterNick]

I'm currently looking for a stock for my Navy Arms Charleville. I already have the lock, barrel and other metal parts. I have not had any luck. Who is this Jess Mellot? Any other leads for a stock that would work, or even be close? (Sorry if this is very obvious, I'm not a frequently flyer on this forum, and haven't turned anything up on google)

Jess is the owner operator of The Rifle Shoppe Inc.

He has a 1763/66 stock patterned after an original. His might work with the miruko parts.

Your barrel, lock, bands, springs, side plate all should work with fitting; but I think you’ll need a new trigger guard and butt plate.

 

[longtoothpard]

I'm currently looking for a stock for my Navy Arms Charleville. I already have the lock, barrel and other metal parts. I have not had any luck. Who is this Jess Mellot? Any other leads for a stock that would work, or even be close? (Sorry if this is very obvious, I'm not a frequently flyer on this forum, and haven't turned anything up on google)

Four years ago I visited Dixie Gun Works in Union City, TN. They had a stock for the Miroku Charleville. Might be worth calling them and see if they still have it...you never know.

 

[FlinterNick]

Four years ago I visited Dixie Gun Works in Union City, TN. They had a stock for the Miroku Charleville. Might be worth calling them and see if they still have it...you never know.

They had a replacement forearm For a long time.

The only way to restock a Charleville is with a blank, you need to find a guy with a machine that will copy the stock.

Dave Keck can do it.

The Rifle Shoppe’s stock likely won’t work, the locks are very similar with the dimensions being off slightly and the trigger guard and butt plate likely wont work. I knew someone who restocked a Miroku charleville with a 1774 Charleville stock by the Rifle Shoppe, the result was what i would describe as a desperate attempt. The lock area just didn’t have enough wood and side plate didnt Work well. The barrel on the 1774 and Miroku model are almost identical with some differences in tapering at the muzzle.

Dunlap wood crafts has a 1808 contract musket stock which is oversized, I would go that route personally, but its one hell of a project to take on. Another route woudl be to get an oversized fowler or trade musket precarved stock and work off of that.

Charleville Stocks on originals are almost never found in their original form too so its very hard to get an accurate representation of what it ought to have looked like before decades of use and butchering.

 

[longtoothpard]

I should have snagged that stock. It was a Miroku, two-piece full stock.

If it were me I would contact Dave.