Navy Arms

[swoter]

Look what I found in a pawnshop today! Marked Navy Arms, barrel is marked Antonio Zoli Italy. Missing front swivel, front sight is a cut-up dime, and has a ball stuck in the barrel. Other than that is in good shape. Any ideas as to what model, etc this is would be appreciated. Short little sucker isn't it? Anyplace to get correct parts anymore?

 

[swoter]

Oh yeah, its a 58 caliber. The Maxi-ball came out fairly easily. Looks like the powder had turned to a brownish dust. Some rust in barrel. Going to strip it down and give it a good cleaning, hopefully the barrel comes clean.

 

[izee2]

Swoter,
Looks like it is a repro of a JP Murray carbine. Navy arms used to import a lot of their guns from Zoli during the late 70's early eighties. I can't give ya much more info than that. Try Lodgewood www.lodgewood.com or S&S firearms www.ssfirearms.com for parts.
Neat little carbine have fun with it.
See YA Later
Tom

 

[[email protected]]

Yep.....that thar is a J.P MURRAY Confederate carbine....
you can tell by the brass nosepiece....dont see many of em anymore......nice gun!!! Congratulations!!!
let us know how it shoots!!! I wish I could find one like that !!!

*** WV SCROUNGER ***

 

[swoter]

Thanks for the info. Do you think some of the parts would interchange with the navy arms zouave? Would like to order a front sight and a barrel band spring for the front nose piece. This one has a small knob on the end which has worked loose. Tried to solder it, but wouldn't take. Called around and found some .58 roundballs, but can't find any minies locally. I've never had a musket before, this has a bigger nipple than my other rifles, but the musket caps I bought seem too loose. #12 caps are too small. Is there a size in between, or do I need to replace the nipple?

 

[jdstrang]

Swoter:

Being in Ohio, you are in the heart of minie-shooting country. There's a dozen N-SSA teams here, better'n 200 members, all of whom shoot minies regularly out of similar carbines and rifles. Then there's the Log Cabin Shop in Lodi, home to everything in muzzlestuffing. What part of the state are you in? We'll get you hooked up with somebody. :blue: :grey:

 

[swoter]

London, about 20 miles south west of columbus.

 

[thehorn]

Check the Dixie Gun Works catalog. Missing parts (band spring & front swivel) will most likely be those from the repro 1841 Mississippi and/or Zouave, which Dixie stocks. Also, as this piece was sitting around with a load for some unknown length of time, be sure to really check out your breech area with a good bore light. Wouldn't hurt to pull the nipple and see what's going on in the seat area too.
Good luck with it. It's a nice piece. I have a similar one, but the short Zouave model by Navy and it's a nice short deer gun.

 

[swoter]

I'll check dixie, thanks. Never thought of them. Here's a picture of an original that I found on the net.

 

[Zonie]

Dixie is currently offering a gun just like it. Theirs is made by Euro Arms and their asking $725 in their 2005 catalog.

I don't know where you can get a spring, but maybe Dixie Gunworks could help you. They sometimes can do a pretty good job of matching the part if you make arrangements with them and send them the pieces.

In CONFEDERATE ARMS , William A Albaugh III & Edward N Simmons, 1957 it shows one of these guns in plate 105, with the following description:
J.P.Murray artillery carbine. 40" overall, 23 1/2" barrel, .58 caliber, brass buttplate, trigger guard, flat band and double front band. Notched rear sight. Iron swivels on front band and front of trigger guard. Lockplate stamped "J. P. Murray, Columbus, Ga" Barrel breech stamped "PR., F.C.H."...Made at the Greenwood & Gray factory where Murray was Master Armorer.

In the back of the book under MURRAY, JOHN P.-COLUMBUS, Ga, the book goes on to say the letters F.C.H. were the initials of the inspecting officer F.C.Humphries.
It goes on to say Murray was an Englishman who lived in Charleston, S.C. until his death in 1910.

The Dixie Catalog says: "Originally manufactured by Eldridge S. Greenwood and William C. Gray of Columbus, Georgia, between 1862 and 1864 for Confederate Artillery units during the Civil War. Since raw materials were difficult to obtain in the South, Southern citizens donated their personal brass items to be melted down to manufacture some of the hardware for these guns. N/SSA approved."

There is only one size of musket cap so if the ones you have are loose, it may be because the nipple is worn, or because the caps you have are a little on the large size.

The Dixie gun uses the standard 5/16-24 nipple (Dixie # NP1335).

 

[Pittsburghunter]

At auction arms right now there is someone selling bulk packages of the minni's for that rifle. I believe it was on the 5th page in the black powder section. I think the cost was $25/100 with free shipping. Don't discount the free shipping when we are talking about lead. :thumbsup:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7013273

not sure how to make this a hyperlink but I think you can just copy and paste it in your url window.

 

[swoter]

Update on the carbine. Well, the nipple was rusted onto the drum, so I let it soak a couple of days with wd-40. Was trying to unscrew when the nipple snapped completely off with the threads still in the drum. The drum is part of the barrel and not removable. Tapped on the inside a few times trying to get the remnants to turn. Didn't happen. Got the bright idea to drill the bottom out and maybe the rest would break free. Didn't happen. What I have now is a smooth tube into the drum. Don't think I got down to the threads, but they're probably messed up anyway. Also, air will no longer enter the barrel from the drum, so the vent is plugged too. Don't know whether a gunsmith can fix it or not. Now you all can have a good laugh at my expense. Boy, was I pissed for awhile, but getting over it now. Not the first stupid thing I've done and sure won't be the last. Think I'll just stick it on Gunbroker as a wall-hanger. Was looking forward to shooting it too. :redface:

 

[Rebel]

Have you tried an EZ out? May have to drill and tap for a larger size nipple if it doens't come that way.

 

[thehorn]

Think I'll just stick it on Gunbroker as a wall-hanger. Was looking forward to shooting it too. :redface:

Whoa, hold on there; it ain't over til it's over. Don't give up on it yet. Here's what I'd do. :m2c:First, make sure there's no load in the barrel. Next, with the barrel removed from the stock, soak the breech end in a coffee can filled with Liquid Wrench or Kroil. Let it set in a corner for about a week. After about a week or two, remove the barrel from the can, wipe it off, and fix it in a padded jaw bench vise so that you can work with hands free. Apply heat directly to the remaining nipple with a propane torch but not to the point that it turns red. Put aside the torch and use an easy out on it. Repeated short heatings and continued application of torque on the easy-out should help to break the nipple free. I've even used an eye dropper to add more penetrant to the heated stuck screw/nipple, as the heat helps to wick the penetrant into the joint between nipple and bolster. Just be sure to keep the penetrant away from the open flame to avoid a fire. Good luck and I hope it all comes out for you

 

[swoter]

I'll try the ez-out, but what can be done if the drum threads are messed up? Can it be retapped safely? Just have this picture of a nipple flying off and becoming embedded in my forehead. Dealt with stuck nipples before, but this is the worst I've seen. Don't think I drilled into the drum threads, but the way this is turning out they're probably messed up also.

 

[[email protected]]

Here is a link for oversize nipples.http://www.thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/parts_nipples.htm If you can git the old one out and re-tap for a new oversize you will be O.K.
Good luck...take yer time and dont throw the baby away with the bath water......
( if the link dont work..jest look for THUNDER RIDGE MUZZLELOADERS )

**** WV SCROUNGER ***

 

[swoter]

Ok, per a suggestion from a forum member, the rifle is on it's way to the Log Cabin Shop. I called them and they'll look it over and give me their opinion and an estimate. Probably best that I don't mess with it anymore, should've thought of this myself, better late than never though.
Thanks for all the replies.

 

[walruskid1]

good choice - ozzie at the log cabin is a good gunsmith. you won't regret your decision.

:imo:

 

[Runner]

Just for future reference. Peroxide will often eat the locking rust out of those threads in an hour and free them right up. Many guns with locked clean out screws can be fixed with an ounce of peroxide and about 30 minutes. Do not leave peroxide in the barrel overnight or for any long period. Keep it away from browned finishes also.

 

[swoter]

Now to finish the story: Called Ozzie at the Log Cabin Shop to see if he had looked at my gun or not. He said that he could not get the remnants of the nipple out even with heat. I asked if he could tap it for a larger nipple to which he said that the 1/4 inch musket nipple was the largest he knew of. I said ok, send it back and I'll sale it for parts. Was looking at it this am and saw a broken piece of small rod in the flash channel. got it out with a small punch. Then I used a 1/4 tap to cut new threads in the drum. Put a little blue locktite on to help seal and went to the range. She shoots about 4 inches high at 50 yards, but I'm happy it shoots at all! Pulled the nipple when I got home, and everything looked good. Might have to take it deer hunting in a couple of weeks. I don't know what happened to the remnants of the nipple, I think the very bottom of the old nipple may be down in the bottom of the drum, but can't really tell. As long as it shoots, and the new nipple doesn't work loose I'll be satisfied.