Navy44 Powder load

[kappel]

I'm new to this forum but I am hoping that I can successfully ask a question and get an answer from the more knowledgeable people here. I have an 1841 Navy 44 revolver and can't figure out the maximum load for the gun. One manual says to use 17 to 22 grains but when I do this the bullet barely makes it out of the barrel. Another manual says to use 22 to 30 grains and the gun shoots pretty good with this load but the bullet won't even penetrate a 2X6 board and bounces off of railroad ties that make up my shooting backstop. Right now I am up to 33 grains but the bullet is still fairly deep in the chamber (about 1/4" to 3/8" from the end) even with a wonder wad packed in. Another manual says that the bullet should be 1 mm or .040 inch from the end of the chamber when loaded correctly.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[shooyer_250]

Kap, i cannot answer your quest...however, you may rest assured, the folks on this forum are the kindest most knowledgeable folks on any forum on the net...you will recieve the benefit of their knowledge for the price of a thank you...all they ask is for you to pay it forward...Lee

 

[arcticap]

It's my understanding that a Colt can hold close to a maximum of 49 grains of fffg powder under very heavy compression, but at about the maximum working load of 40 grains some guns may actually experience hammer blowback and rough functioning.
Pyrodex P generally produces noticiably higher velocities than Goex fffg, and Swiss fffg will sometimes exceed the velocity of Pyrodex P.
Every revolver is different, but 35 grains of Pyrodex P can exceed 1000 f.p.s., while 35 grains of Goex fffg could be as low as 850 f.p.s.

 

[renovato]

Generally, you can safely shoot as much powder as will fit in your chamber in steel frame guns, so you can tinker to find your max load. Brass frames are a different story. They can stretch and go out of time after too many hot loads.

The max load is rarely the most accurate load though. And you don't really get much velocity increase in return for the higher recoil and wear and tear on the gun. You do want to seat the ball at close to flush with the chamber mouth as possible, whether using wads or filler to do so, or increasing the charge or a combination of both. I generally only run about 25 grains in my .44's as a target load, and I use corn meal as filler to bring the ball close to the chamber mouth. If I was going to hunt with the gun, I'd use less filler and more powder.

As for penetrating hard materials, remember that a lead ball doesn't carry a lot of weight for its diameter and it's going to have a tougher time getting through hard barriers than a bullet would. They work better in soft tissue.

 

[kappel]

Thanks so much everybody. I learned more in an hour today than I have for several weeks previously. I'm leaving the coffee shop where I check my email now and going back out to the mesa that I live on so I will be unable to check any more answers until next time in town. I'll check back on the forum then.

Thanks again.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'm still fairly strong for an old guy, but I don't believe that I could force a ball home on top of 49 grains of powder in a .44 Colt '60 Army cylinder, which is what that .44 Navy uses. A 30 grain load should get that ball moving fast enough to get the job done.

 

[mykeal]

His description makes me think the problem is with the powder measure. 33 grains, a powder wad and a .454 ball and it's still 1/4" from the chamber mouth? Either the wad is pretty skinny or the 33 grains is really 23 grains. Wouldn't be the first time someone has misread a scale.

 

[Don]

I was thinkin the same thing. Something just does't make sense there. A 30 grain load should bring the ball fairly close to the mouth.

Don

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Yup. Something is out of whack here. That's a Dragoon load, not a belt pistol load.

 

[Zonie]

I agree.
It will be interesting to find out just how our new friend is measuring his powder. Finding out what kind of powder he is using also would be helpful.

I can understand the ball bouncing off of a railroad tie because some of them were made of some really tough wood and they often have toughened up with age but his comment that the ball wouldn't penetrate a 2 x 6 tells me the load he is using is very small.

kappel: Welcome to the Forum!
As others have mentioned, if you are using real black powder and it is a steel framed gun it is impossible to overload. (Steel framed does not include the trigger guard or the grip straps. It is talking about the frame.)

The next time you shoot your gun, pour the black powder or Pyrodex into the cylinder until it is filled to a little deeper than 3/8 of an inch from the chambers mouth.
Then ram the ball in place and grease the mouth of the cylinder with Crisco or some other lube.

That would be a maximum load and it should not bounce off of a 2X6.

 

[kappel]

Hi. It's Thursday the 19th and I'm back in town again and have read the additional postings. You all have given me a lot to think about. First of all, I agree that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to shoot hot loads all of the time. It's just that I wasn't sure what was the correct "normal" load and what was a hot load. Now I know based on the answers that I got.

And secondly, I have also been wondering if I was measuring correctly. I received a brass variable measuring tool with the gun and am now thinking that I must be reading it wrong.

And lastly, I did not want to blow up the gun, or myself with it, by ignorantly pouring too much powder in the chamber. I now have the information, thanks to all of you, to proceed more wisely and safely (something I probably wouldn't have done a few years ago but there are some benefits in getting older).

Kerry

 

[TFoley]

Sir - I don't have a Colt Navy - but I DO have a Ruger Old Army - pretty much the same capacity.

I was over at the range this afternoon and tried your load with FFFg, using an electronic scale I carry in my possibles box for measuring loads to set other shooters' powder measurers - no flask to muzzle loading is permtted here, only indirect loading.

I found that I can JUST get 30gr of FFFG and a ball into the chamber, but it's near as dammit flush.

It's also an impressive touch-off, too.

If I were you I'd look very carefully at your powder measure - these things are approximate, y'know, not gospel.

tac

 

[Zonie]

kappel
I doubt that your powder measure is exactly the same as mine but just to give you a feeling for how much powder 20 or 30 grains is I measured two different adjustable powder measures that I own.

One of them has an inside diameter of .350 inch (about 11/32).
When it is set at 20 grains, the face of the movable bottom is 0.805 (about 13/16) below the top.
At 30 grains, the face of the movable bottom is 1.125 (1 1/8).

The other measure is .430 inside diameter (about 7/16).
The 20 grains setting locates the bottom .570 (about 9/16) down and 30 grains locates the bottom .845 (27/32) down.

There is a difference between the volumes for the amount of powder each of these measures would throw for a given setting and this difference just shows that what tac was saying, "these things are approximate" is quite correct.

On the bright side, a slight variation in the amount of powder will not cause a major, or even a minor problem with your gun.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

an empty 7.62X39 case (AK or SK) makes a good powder measure for a 'warm' load in a .44 leaving enough room for a felt button and ball/slug.
useing this charge of powder and a Lee mold slug in my .44 Rem I blew a hole in a jack-pine about 4" dia with a chunk knocked out the back side.
and shot a smallish (100lbs field dressed) feral hog in base of skull/neck junction with complete pass-through and much bone damage DRT.
welcome to the Forum and IMO the most fun shooting in the BP sector of shooting.

 

[mykeal]

Zonie,

The difference between your two measures at the 20 grain setting is 0.02134 cubic inches; that's almost 7 percent of the volume of the 'skinnier' measure at that setting.

At the 30 grain setting the difference is 0.05789 cubic inches, which is a little over 13 percent of the volume of the 'skinnier' measure at that setting.

That really surprised me. I completely agree that these numbers won't pose a problem for the gun, but they do add a lot of credibility to the maxim about being consistent - find one powder measure and stick to it.

 

[poordevil]

years ago I had a Navy Arms 1860 , What they called the Sheriffs Model with a 5 1/2" barrel. I poured as much powder in a cilinder, then poured that in a messure and it was 40gr (3FFFG). Shot fine but made gun dirty fast.

P

 

[R.M.]

Did that 40gr leave room for the ball?

 

[poordevil]

yes it did. Quite easily. round ball, not conical.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I have an 1841 Navy 44 revolver and can't figure out the maximum load for the gun. One manual says to use 17 to 22 grains but when I do this the bullet barely makes it out of the barrel. Another manual says to use 22 to 30 grains

I assume you mean a 51 Colt Navy .44. Is this a brass frame revolver? If so the manual listing the 17-22gr loads is about right. Using heavier loads, like 30+grs in a brass frame revolver well eventually cause frame stretch and cylinder indentation in the recoil shield. I limit my brass frame open tops to 25grs. If it's a steel frame, load away, probably can't get enough in the chamber to hurt it.

 

[kappel]

A couple of weeks ago I posted a question about how much powder to load in an 1851 Navy Colt 44. Some of the answers to my question wondered if I was measuring correctly. So I decided to check that out. I calculated how many grams equals 30 grains of powder. The answer to that question is that about 1.9 grams = 30 grains. On my variable powder measure I had to set it at 35 grains to get 1.9 grams of weight so that meant that it was measuring 5 grains low.

But the other interesting thing that I learned is that the powder that I was using, which was Jim Shockeys Gold, didn't weigh as much as black powder. Shockeys Gold only weighed 1.5 grams at 30 grains. A black powder friend of mine told me that he thought that Shockeys Gold worked better for rifles than for pistols.

Anyway I switched to black powder and increased the measure to "35" so that I would actually be putting 30 grains in my pistol and now my loading and shooting problems seem to be solved. The ball is now closer to the end of the chamber when loaded and the bullet has considerably more penetration power.

Kerry