Neck knives

[boar]

I use a neck knife some times, it is small. My friend didn't like me wearing it when we rode our hores so I got a folding lockblade. I always have a knife to cut if a horse gets tangled up in a rope. My stallon got wrap up on a tie line one time and I had to cut him loose. I always thought the natives wore the neck knives becuase the G-string would only carry so much. Dilly

 

Nifeman,... at least that's the story he is willing ta share with ya. :rotf:

 

[LFC]

Had an amusing comment, but might've been taken amiss.

 

[OregonDoc]

Hi all,
I carry a neck knife now and am very happy with it. I am not sure about the appropriate history of it, but in the boat it is wonderful. I dont have to sit on it, bang it into the boat, just uncomfortable overall on the belt. Mine is a 2 inch blade that comes in handy. Mind you, I said in the boat! If I were headed out on foot, that might be different. Just my 2 cents.

Jon

 

[wildeagle]

Just a reply in general, not towards anyone. The practice of wearing a blade suspended and in plain sight started with early man. Language was not wide spread. When two men approached each other a knife suspended in plain view indicated a non agressive posture. Now I'm talking early man here, most blades were stone or possibly bronze. A blade in plain sight indicated the intentions of the individual and how the meeting would procede. As weapons evolved the practice slowly disappeared. Having no pockets so to speak, it was a logical place to carry one's blade. As time rolled on more practical means of carry were developed. Depending on how vigorous the activity one is involved in would dictate one's choice of where he would keep his knife. Hanging around your neck is a good place to show off a nice or cherished blade as long as you don't plan on wrassling any grizzes :grin: then in your stongest hand might be better :rotf:

 

[shmrck1]

wildeagle,
I have also been told,heard and read
that the handshake started for the same reason...
That being..I offer my hand that is empty of
weopens in friendship.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[tg]

"They also tied their ear lobes to the back of their necks to keep them from getting hung up on twigs and such when on the chase or at war."

When running through the woods in a clout I don't think my ear lobes would be my main concern as to getting hungup on twigs and such?

 

[Elnathan]

Judging from some of the conversations I have read, there seems to be at least some evidence that the neck-knife was not everyday wear but had ritual significance when on the warpath. What evidnce they have for this I could not say. Okwaho would probably be the person to ask on this board.

 

[Okwaho]

Judging from some of the conversations I have read, there seems to be at least some evidence that the neck-knife was not everyday wear but had ritual significance when on the warpath. What evidnce they have for this I could not say. Okwaho would probably be the person to ask on this board.

Thanks,"friend" for the kind words.I can only speak for myself but will try and unmuddy the waters somewhat. I took a quick look at De Creux and the Nicholas drawings both from the 17th and early 18th centuries. I also looked at Karklin on Canadian Indians and some material on trade knives in Oneida country by Hagerty which included a 1605 quote from Lescarbot.My conclusion is that knives were worn around the neck as early as the 17th century both as every day tools and use in warfare and perhaps in ceremonial settings.

Gilbert Hagerty in "The Iron Trade Knife in Oneida Territory" reprinted from "Pennsylvania Archaeologist",Bulletin of the Society for Pennsylvania Archaeology Vol. XXXIII P.97 quotes Lescarbot from 1605,speaking of the Natives from Nova Scotia,"Our Sourquois carry a knife before their breasts,which they do not do for ornament,but for want of pocket,and because it is an implement which at all times is necessary unto them".Many of the excavated knives had clip points and holes in the handles for the passage of a thong.Hagerty is writing of post contact{17th and early 18th centuries}sites but it is clear that neck knives were worn as implements at an early date.I didn't find any illustrated in the Nicholas or De Creux drawings but am reasonably sure that the practice wasn't limited to Nova Scotia or the post contact Oneida.

Karlis Karlin in "Trade Ornament Usage Among the Native Peoples of Canada"in dscribing the dress of Iroquois warriors cites on p.14 Major Robert Rogers {Rogers 1765:227-8},"and that horrid weapon,the scalping-knife hangs by a string that goes about their necks". Clearly this indicates usage of a scalping knife as part of the war equipment of Iroquois warriors

As I said at the onset I can only speak for myself. I have two neck knives,one copied from a small clipped point knife found at the Oneida site and the other is a quill wrapped English styled "scalper" with a quilled sheath.Both are worn around the neck and I recall seeing a quote on knives worn hanging down the back.I wear the former knife for every day use and the other is worn when I fight or am taking part in a war council or some similar occasion.When wearing the quilled knife it is highly likely that I will also be wearing black war paint. To me that knife is not one I would use to slice potatoes or other foodstuffs in camp or in a peaceful setting.I often wear a larger knife as a belt knife when needing a larger knife than the small utility knife.
I hope this clears some of the cobwebs but as I said, I speak ONLY for myself.I am not overly fond of Whites with quilled neck knives unless,as in the case of French Voyageurs including Coreurs de bois,they are closely associated with and are Native allies.
As always,I welcome responsible opposing comment.
Tom Patton

 

[Elnathan]

Thanks, Okwaho.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I don't understand the meaning of a quilled knife as you put it. Is it only a decoration, or is there some special significance to it? Is the quill work only on the sheath? Is it the same thing as beading, only different?
Where I live out on the 'Left coast', I've seen quite a lot of styles of knives and methods for wearing or carrying them.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you google " Quillwork " you will find many sites that describe the kinds of work done, and have both drawings and pictures of modern quillwork on both knife sheaths, and other clothing. There are " How-To" do it sites aplenty. It takes time, patience, and a lot of work to do this kind of work, and a source of quills. In the Midwest, you have to go North to about Green Bay, Wisconsin, before you find yourself in Porcupine country. Shells were used for decoration South of that area. Beads, other than seeds, showed up AFTER the Spanish explored the country, and was an import item. Glass beads are PC for equipment in the 18th and 19th centuries, only because the bead trade had been going on for hundreds of years by then. The more muted colors of seed beads, dyed naturally, or with other dyes, as well as quill work, are much more indicative of Native American Culture than the glass, and NOW plastic bead work seen. It still takes a lot of skill and work to work with the modern glass and plastic beads-- no criticism there--- but the colors are much brighter, and the plastics and glass flash in the sunlight.

 

DoubleDuece, I posted some pictures of my knife cases above. These cases or quilled with porcupine quills as were the originals in the Great Lakes region. Sometimes the knife handle was covered in quillwork too. Quilled knives.

 

[wildeagle]

Snake eyes, quite true, I have heard,read, been told this also. TG, Your right, running around in a clout, my ear lobes would'nt be my first worry. But after a winter or two I probably would'nt have much lobe left, with frost bite and all that cold they dry up and fall off. Then they could call me "mouse ears". :rotf:

 

Some of those ear lobes did get froze or torn off even with all the great care to keep them from doing so. Some of the old drawings of Shawnees and such have "blow outs" dangling from the ear. What was left from the original ear slit. Some were stretched to lengths that would allow the loop to hang down on the shoulders. The great war chief Buckhongeles of the Delaware tribe is reported to have been so engrossed in the story that the Moravian missionaries were telling that he was sucking on his ear lobe while listening intently. That is focus. :rotf:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

When I first saw the photos, I thought the knives and sheaths were beautiful. I did think the decoration on the sheathing was beads and thread of some sort. Now I see... very beautiful. Sometimes I just need to take a closer look and ask some questions. Beautiful.

 

[Okwaho]

I don't understand the meaning of a quilled knife as you put it. Is it only a decoration, or is there some special significance to it? Is the quill work only on the sheath? Is it the same thing as beading, only different?
Where I live out on the 'Left coast', I've seen quite a lot of styles of knives and methods for wearing or carrying them.

DoubleDeuce,you're close here. I read the posts explaining the origins and techniques of quillwork but one needs to read between the lines of what I said and more importantly "meant".The designs of quillwork,beadwork,moosehair false embroidery,wampum,and painted material all have one thing in common and that is the use of symbolism in using the varied designs and construction techniques.With that thought in mind reread my post as to the uses to which I put the two sheathed neck knives and you will understand what I meant.That is as far as I prefer to go in that aspect of my post.

As to your question comparing quillwork and beadwork, it should be noted that porcupines are not native to the Southern U.S and therefore quillworking is not generally found in Native culture in that area except as a trade item for complete articles.Beadwork and other decorative techniques would be used in lieu of porcupine quillwork although bird quills are known to have been used.
I hope this helps.
Tom Patton

 

[Joel/Calgary]

To take things out of historical usage somewhat, it should be noted that neck knives appear in modern bushcraft and survival usage, too. Mors Kochanski is a woodsman and author I can recall at the moment who recommends carrying a moderate-size knife (3" to 5" blade Mora or Frost laminate or something similar) this way. One can tuck it in a shirt pocket or inside your shirt, coat, or parka if need be to keep it out of the way but still readily accessible. I've found this works well for me in the woods, and that knife (I usually have others, too) is always on me, in the same place, and readily accessible, no matter what clothes and other gear I have on, or may have taken off.

Naturally, YMMV - as with many things, this involves individual circumstances and preference.

Joel

 

[bucktales]

Hi all,
I carry a neck knife now and am very happy with it. I am not sure about the appropriate history of it, but in the boat it is wonderful. I dont have to sit on it, bang it into the boat, just uncomfortable overall on the belt. Mine is a 2 inch blade that comes in handy. Mind you, I said in the boat! If I were headed out on foot, that might be different. Just my 2 cents.

Jon

Glad you brought up the the boat angle.
Being a lifetime recreational boater and fisherman, I have always carried knives when on the water. Sometimes more than one. I usually have a neck knife or at least a one hand folder on me in case of an emergency.
On my boat there is usually a knife of some sort within easy reach.
I'd be interested to see if it was a common practice for ancient mariners to carry blades. It would seem that working on old sailing vessels would require one to carry a blade for both work and safety.
.

 

[Ron LaClair]

I have several neck knives and find them very handy (accessible) Here' the largest 6 3/4" blade that I carry in a quilled sheath.