Need Advice on Stock Staining
- Thread starter George Hoskins
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Thanks Fred!!!
Sure Kevin
I mix 1 part acid to 4 parts distilled or rain water.To this I add 1/2 square chunks of wrought iron,never letting the reaction get too hot.If you add fine iron or too much iron the reaction gets too hot.If the iron dissapears add more.While I have no proof I belive the final color can be affected by the temperture of the reaction.When the reation stops 12-24 hours(the bubbles stop coming off the iron)I( strain through cheese cloth and allow to sit with a loose lid for a few weeks.Ready to use.
My staining process is as follows
Scrape stock(no sanding),Apply two coats of stain blushing between coats.Whisker one last time with xtra fine gray scotchbrite pad.Neutralize with household ammonia(this also removes any dust from final whiskering).Seal with a coat of seed lac and finish with your choice of finish.
Mitch Yates
Sure Kevin
I mix 1 part acid to 4 parts distilled or rain water.To this I add 1/2 square chunks of wrought iron,never letting the reaction get too hot.If you add fine iron or too much iron the reaction gets too hot.If the iron dissapears add more.While I have no proof I belive the final color can be affected by the temperture of the reaction.When the reation stops 12-24 hours(the bubbles stop coming off the iron)I( strain through cheese cloth and allow to sit with a loose lid for a few weeks.Ready to use.
My staining process is as follows
Scrape stock(no sanding),Apply two coats of stain blushing between coats.Whisker one last time with xtra fine gray scotchbrite pad.Neutralize with household ammonia(this also removes any dust from final whiskering).Seal with a coat of seed lac and finish with your choice of finish.
Mitch Yates
Capt. Jas.
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Has anyone ever seen any bad effects from not neutralizing when using nitric solutions? I have not.
How about negative effects of not using iron in the mix?
I have some of the ferric nitrate crystals but have not tried them as of yet. I also have experimented with various irons and steels but still prefer just nitric and water.
How about negative effects of not using iron in the mix?
I have some of the ferric nitrate crystals but have not tried them as of yet. I also have experimented with various irons and steels but still prefer just nitric and water.
James
I don't have any experience with those two situations.I've always neutralized but since I allow the reaction to stop when making stain the acid should be spent which would eliminate the need to neutralize.I like the results I'm getting so I don't mess with the process.
As to eliminating the iron ,your results getting gold tones intrugues me and I plan to experment with that in the future.
If you are getting good results with your process I say keep doing it.Many of us get results using our methods that others say can't be dupilcated or can't be done.I get great results using my nitrate of iron stain on walnut that others can't duplicate.I can't explain it!!
Mitch
I don't have any experience with those two situations.I've always neutralized but since I allow the reaction to stop when making stain the acid should be spent which would eliminate the need to neutralize.I like the results I'm getting so I don't mess with the process.
As to eliminating the iron ,your results getting gold tones intrugues me and I plan to experment with that in the future.
If you are getting good results with your process I say keep doing it.Many of us get results using our methods that others say can't be dupilcated or can't be done.I get great results using my nitrate of iron stain on walnut that others can't duplicate.I can't explain it!!
Mitch
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I think it was another fellow who mentioned the gold tones on another forum but hard sugar does seem get some goldish undertone.
I enjoy playing around on scrap more than I like changing what works for me. :grin:
I enjoy playing around on scrap more than I like changing what works for me. :grin:
George Hoskins
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Thanks everyone for the advice and sorry for the delay in responding but I had some puter problems. Now I have to sift thru it all and try to make a decision. I sort of like the LMF Maple but would like it a tad redder. I may experiment with adding a drop or two of cherry. It is a strong color so I will approach it carefully. So is it the common experience that AF make the grain pop more than just stain or not? I did some test patches with the stains over AF and it came out really dark. Once again thanks for the help. Cheers
Mitch,
Thanks for your recipe. A couple qustions if you don't mind. I'm working on my first build and very nervous about messing up a pretty piece of wood!
You mentioned wrought iron in your recipe, so naturelly I Google wrought iron. From what I gather, wrought iron doesn't have any carbon it it (or very low). Can I use nails, cast iron, or other things that I have seen suggested? You prefer not to use steel wool?
Next, you say you apply two coats, do you stain the whole stock then blush, or stain/blush small areas at a time? How should a greenhorn do it? Do you let the aqua fortis dry for a period of time before blushing? I'm assuming wiskering between coats of aqua fortis.
Then neutralize with household ammonia. Just cotton swab the stock, same as the aqua fortis? No need to wisker after neutralizeing?
Thanks for your help, I saw your stuff (artwork) at Lewisburg and if I can get this wood and metal to look half as good as yours, I'll be happy!
Thanks,
JT
Thanks for your recipe. A couple qustions if you don't mind. I'm working on my first build and very nervous about messing up a pretty piece of wood!
You mentioned wrought iron in your recipe, so naturelly I Google wrought iron. From what I gather, wrought iron doesn't have any carbon it it (or very low). Can I use nails, cast iron, or other things that I have seen suggested? You prefer not to use steel wool?
Next, you say you apply two coats, do you stain the whole stock then blush, or stain/blush small areas at a time? How should a greenhorn do it? Do you let the aqua fortis dry for a period of time before blushing? I'm assuming wiskering between coats of aqua fortis.
Then neutralize with household ammonia. Just cotton swab the stock, same as the aqua fortis? No need to wisker after neutralizeing?
Thanks for your help, I saw your stuff (artwork) at Lewisburg and if I can get this wood and metal to look half as good as yours, I'll be happy!
Thanks,
JT
JT
Wrought iron was mostly made prior to 1900 so it is what was available to the smiths of the original rifles that we are copying.I get mine from nails recovered from a house built in the 1700's.It is low carbon and while it has impurities they are different impurities then the mild steel that's avaiable today.I have made stain with mild steel but the shade of color that the stain is slightly different that that I get with wrought iron.Both will work they just produce different colors.I don't use steel wool because the reaction is too violent and you tend to end up with muddy stain.Bright(not galvanized)nail would be a good source of mild steel just add a few at a time to keep the reaction from getting too hot.Whatever you use need to be free from oils or paints.
Once the gun is complete and whiskered several times I apply the stain over the whole gun and let dry completely,then I blush it with the heat.Then I apply another coat of stain over the whole gun,let dry and blush.I don't whisker between coats but wait until the second coat is blushed and then whisker with an xtra fine(gray)Scotch brite pad.Then I use a clean rag with household ammonia on it to both neutralize and clean up any dust from the final whisker.Then i let the stock dry overnight and apply my seal coat of seed lac.
Hope this helps and be glad to answer any other ?'s you might have.
Mitch
Wrought iron was mostly made prior to 1900 so it is what was available to the smiths of the original rifles that we are copying.I get mine from nails recovered from a house built in the 1700's.It is low carbon and while it has impurities they are different impurities then the mild steel that's avaiable today.I have made stain with mild steel but the shade of color that the stain is slightly different that that I get with wrought iron.Both will work they just produce different colors.I don't use steel wool because the reaction is too violent and you tend to end up with muddy stain.Bright(not galvanized)nail would be a good source of mild steel just add a few at a time to keep the reaction from getting too hot.Whatever you use need to be free from oils or paints.
Once the gun is complete and whiskered several times I apply the stain over the whole gun and let dry completely,then I blush it with the heat.Then I apply another coat of stain over the whole gun,let dry and blush.I don't whisker between coats but wait until the second coat is blushed and then whisker with an xtra fine(gray)Scotch brite pad.Then I use a clean rag with household ammonia on it to both neutralize and clean up any dust from the final whisker.Then i let the stock dry overnight and apply my seal coat of seed lac.
Hope this helps and be glad to answer any other ?'s you might have.
Mitch
Thanks Mitch, I'm going to brew a couple different recipes tonight. I made alot of sample pieces to play/experement with! Two more questions, if ya don't mind.
In your experience, what effect did changing the proportion of water/acid have, I'm guessing less water darker wood, more water lighter wood?
Also, how long is your brew good for, shelf life?
In your experience, what effect did changing the proportion of water/acid have, I'm guessing less water darker wood, more water lighter wood?
Also, how long is your brew good for, shelf life?
Bruce Bogart
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If I am not incorrect, the acid should be spent after making the stain? That's why you feed it iron until it no longer "eats" it? I may not know what I'm talking about! I'm going to try some ferric nitrate. I think it's the result of all the acid/iron/H2O boiling thingy. I hope it's idiot proof!!!! :idunno:
Jt
I have not expermented much with changing the acid to water ratio,so not sure I'm able to answer that.
Shelf life is pretty much forever.I've got some that is eight years old and it still works.I just change the mason jar that it's in every once in a while.
The most important thing about all of this is have fun.I enjoy trying all the differnt things and seeing the results.
Mitch
I have not expermented much with changing the acid to water ratio,so not sure I'm able to answer that.
Shelf life is pretty much forever.I've got some that is eight years old and it still works.I just change the mason jar that it's in every once in a while.
The most important thing about all of this is have fun.I enjoy trying all the differnt things and seeing the results.
Mitch
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