Actually no. use an old rotary patch cutter cause even when they get too dull to do cloth well, they still schnitzel up leather pretty well. I use chamois now and haunt the auto parts stores when they have their specials. Lether will be twice as thick as cloth, or more. But, it compresses much more per thickness than cloth. Might be easy to cut them square and if ole rotary gives up the ghost, I may just do that. It could get expensive having to buy a lot of leather, but if you look around you ought to be able to find some sort of leather clothing maker who will give or sell scraps...they don't hav :wink: e to be pretty.NWD said:
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Need help analyzing my first outing
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user 13289
40 Cal.
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did no one suggest to smooth the crown/bore junction? 320 paper under your thumb works fine. Work in 1/4's to keep it all even and smooooth.
Until the patches are perfect and re-shootable, accuracy will suffer. A glass smooth transition into the rifling allows nice fat effective patching(and tight/accurate/self-cleaning combos) to be used.
Until the patches are perfect and re-shootable, accuracy will suffer. A glass smooth transition into the rifling allows nice fat effective patching(and tight/accurate/self-cleaning combos) to be used.
nathan.davis
36 Cal.
It took a while for my new leather cutter to arrive, but today I shot 6 loads of 5 shots each using a leather wad ahead of the patch. It solved all my problems with blown and cut patches. Now, most of the patches are actually reusable although I don't try to reuse them. My new loads use .25 pillow ticking lubed with a 3:1 mix of windshield washing fluid and Murphys soap, and a leather wad ahead of the ticking lubed with extra-virgin olive oil. The leather wads helped the groups tighten up quite a bit. The CEP for each group was:
80 grains at 50 yards = 1.275"
90 grains at 50 yards = 1.1"
100 grains at 50 yards = 1.02"
110 grains at 50 yards = .94"
120 grains at 50 yards = .92"
130 grains at 50 yards = 1.94"
So it looks like 110 to 120 grains offers the best groups for my .62 rice barrel at 50 yards. Next week I hope to try the same loads at 100 yards.
80 grains at 50 yards = 1.275"
90 grains at 50 yards = 1.1"
100 grains at 50 yards = 1.02"
110 grains at 50 yards = .94"
120 grains at 50 yards = .92"
130 grains at 50 yards = 1.94"
So it looks like 110 to 120 grains offers the best groups for my .62 rice barrel at 50 yards. Next week I hope to try the same loads at 100 yards.
jamesthomas
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I would stay with the 90 to 100 grains myself, the groups aren't different enough to warrant going up to 110 and 120grns, and the recoil should be a bit easier on the shoulder. Nice to see you have solved your problem, 1 inch groups at 50 yards are very nice for a .62 cal.
nathan.davis
36 Cal.
I don't know--that's a good question. Does anyone know?
Doesn't look like it.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/277675-crisco-shortening-nutrition-information/
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nathan.davis
36 Cal.
I have been experimenting with various wad thicknesses and lubes. I've tried three thicknesses of leather wads: 1/8" thick, 3/16" thick, and 1/4" thick (see photo below, my fingers are holding the 1/4" thick leather with the two other thicknesses resting on top). For patches, I use .25 thick ticking from Wal-Mart.
On Sept 30, I shot the group shown below using the 1/8" thick leather wad. It was my best group to that date, but I noticed that my shots were about 1" low and about 1.5" to the right of the bulls-eye. I hoped that this aim point would correct for my earlier results that were low and to the right of the bulls-eye.
So I filed the front sight blade thinner, ending in a sharp point at the top. This helped me to better sight on the bulls-eye. I also cut some 1/4" thick leather patches. The photo below show the results. The accuracy definitely suffered in comparison to the 1/8" thick wad. It took a long time for me to find the thicker wads because they carried a full 30 yards down range.
So I cut some 3/16" thick leather wads, changed to avocado oil for a patch lube, and aimed an inch high and an inch to the left of the bulls-eye. I hoped that this aim point would correct for my earlier results that were low and to the right of the bulls-eye. The first three shots hit almost exactly at my aim point, so I aimed directly at the bulls-eye for the next two shots and hit my aim point (see photo below).
Lessons Learned:
1. Very small and seemingly insignificant changes may affect accuracy profoundly.
2. 1/4" thick leather wads probably weigh too much.
3. I doubt that the avocado oil helped accuracy. However, there may have been slightly less fouling. Unfortunately, the oil left a residue on my fingers that made it difficult to ram the rod down--it kept slipping in my hands. So I will need to reduce the amount of oil on my patches.
4. Due to the expense, I would not recommend buying avocado oil for shooting. We had it already for cooking because we like to stir fry at very high temperatures. If you elect to buy it, make your purchase on-line--the on-line price is a fraction of the price charged by health-food stores.
I'm happy with the results at 50 yards. The groups look tight and my recovered patches look pristine.
On Sept 30, I shot the group shown below using the 1/8" thick leather wad. It was my best group to that date, but I noticed that my shots were about 1" low and about 1.5" to the right of the bulls-eye. I hoped that this aim point would correct for my earlier results that were low and to the right of the bulls-eye.
So I filed the front sight blade thinner, ending in a sharp point at the top. This helped me to better sight on the bulls-eye. I also cut some 1/4" thick leather patches. The photo below show the results. The accuracy definitely suffered in comparison to the 1/8" thick wad. It took a long time for me to find the thicker wads because they carried a full 30 yards down range.
So I cut some 3/16" thick leather wads, changed to avocado oil for a patch lube, and aimed an inch high and an inch to the left of the bulls-eye. I hoped that this aim point would correct for my earlier results that were low and to the right of the bulls-eye. The first three shots hit almost exactly at my aim point, so I aimed directly at the bulls-eye for the next two shots and hit my aim point (see photo below).
Lessons Learned:
1. Very small and seemingly insignificant changes may affect accuracy profoundly.
2. 1/4" thick leather wads probably weigh too much.
3. I doubt that the avocado oil helped accuracy. However, there may have been slightly less fouling. Unfortunately, the oil left a residue on my fingers that made it difficult to ram the rod down--it kept slipping in my hands. So I will need to reduce the amount of oil on my patches.
4. Due to the expense, I would not recommend buying avocado oil for shooting. We had it already for cooking because we like to stir fry at very high temperatures. If you elect to buy it, make your purchase on-line--the on-line price is a fraction of the price charged by health-food stores.
I'm happy with the results at 50 yards. The groups look tight and my recovered patches look pristine.
NWD, might I suggest that you purchase "The System" by fellow member Dutch Schoultz? It will be the best $20 you ever spent on muzzleloading.
I wouldn't care so much about what the patches look like before my groups were tight and by that point who cares?
I wouldn't care so much about what the patches look like before my groups were tight and by that point who cares?
swathdiver said:
Billnpatti
Cannon
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I would add another Amen to that........but I can't. I promised Dutch to quit promoting his system and I will hold to that promise no matter how good I know his system to be. So, you see why I can't say amen......but I didn't promise not to think it. :hmm: :grin:
It is good to see folks experimenting. That is the only way to determine what your rifle likes.
Some try muzzleloading one, maybe two times and have limited or no success and gibe up the sport.
My only question about your experiments is the 120 grain powder charge which seems high to me.
A subscriber, David Bailey from somewhere in Texas recently nailed a nice Black Bear in Wyoming with one shot using only 100 grains of 2FF in his .62 caliber Hawken styled rifle.
With 120 grains of 2FF you might be able to nail a Buick.
You might try a lighter load.
Your use of leather wads eliminates the need for a precise patch thickness as the leather will provide that complete seal. It would be an extra bother to me but I have to admit that wads do seem to work.
keep up the good work.
Dutch Schoutz
Some try muzzleloading one, maybe two times and have limited or no success and gibe up the sport.
My only question about your experiments is the 120 grain powder charge which seems high to me.
A subscriber, David Bailey from somewhere in Texas recently nailed a nice Black Bear in Wyoming with one shot using only 100 grains of 2FF in his .62 caliber Hawken styled rifle.
With 120 grains of 2FF you might be able to nail a Buick.
You might try a lighter load.
Your use of leather wads eliminates the need for a precise patch thickness as the leather will provide that complete seal. It would be an extra bother to me but I have to admit that wads do seem to work.
keep up the good work.
Dutch Schoutz
Billnpatti
Cannon
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I use a product called DuroFelt http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html to make my OP wads. It is a hard felt that is about 1/8 inch thick. I cut my wads with an arc punch but you can buy a custom made punch from Ohio Ramrod [email protected] on this forum. He will make it the exact size that you want and at an extremely reasonable price. I make my wads by first coating my DuroFelt with the lube of my choice just like buttering toast and puting it in the microwave for a few seconds to melt the lube into the felt. I let it cool and then punch out my wads. To use them, I just put in my powder charge and then start teh snug fitting wad in my bore. I use my rammer to seat the wad on the powder. The jag on the end of your rammer should be large enough to keep the wad from getting turned sideways. Then I load my patched ball.
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