Need help finding a hunting flintlock setup

[EthanRubin_123]

I’m a 15 year old boy who’s trying to get into the world of flintlock hunting to extend the notoriously strict Pennsylvania deer season. There seems to be quite a lot to know and not a lot of information for beginners to start. I’m only 111 lbs and 5 foot 5. I therefore want to have a relatively light weight gun with more modern specs and to use a light charge, however I’m not sure what deems a charge as light, it seems like ninety grains or less? Also, the main gun I’m looking at is a traditions pa pellet ultralight for its modern specs such as a removable breach plug. However, some people really seem to hate traditions. I would like to keep the cost under $555 if possible but budget isn’t a super big deal. Additionally, what kind of ammo should I use? I’ve already ruled out the conical and round ball, but am I too quick to do so? I’ve heard great things about Barnes sabots, but I’m not sure which one within their line to get. What kind of grain bullet should I get? Are Powerbelts better? Also, I’d like to be able to ram the bullets in by myself so an easier loading bullet would definitely be something I would factor in. Lastly, what powder will I need for the pan? If there is anything else you would like to add such as tips for shooting etc feel free to add on. ANY help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Ethan Rubin

 

[Grenadier1758]

Welcome to Muzzle Loading and to the Muzzleloding Forum.

On this Forum we only discuss traditional side lock and in-lines from before 1865. We don't discuss pellets as propellant charges or the removeable breech plug.

You will find more information on those topics on our sister site. Modern Muzzleloader.

So before @Zonie updates you, I'll post a quote:

This is a traditional muzzleloading site where we discuss the guns and reproduction of the guns that were made before 1865.

For a site that talks about modern in-line guns go to our sister site, Modern Muzzleloader

Here's a link to it.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/

 

[tnlonghunter]

Hi Ethan, and welcome. I'm glad to hear of your interest!

Most of the hunters and shooters on this site trend toward the very traditional side of things. One of the appeals of flintlocks to us is the old-school approach. Just FYI, this forum's rules are intended specifically for side-lock muzzleloaders, so the rules prohibit discussion of cartridge or inline rifles. I know you didn't ask about them, but just letting you know.

Most guys here, myself included, use patched roundball and real black powder. Part of the reason for that is that flintlocks don't reliably ignite modern substitutes, like Pyrodex or Triple 7, without doing A LOT of work to find a duplex load (part real black, part sub). The reason is that the sparks from a flintlock are burning at a lower temperature than most subs have to have to ignite. You'll almost certainly have to use real black powder in the flash pan, so most of us will say to avoid the subs altogether - it's just easier.

As far as projectiles go, I'd go between .45 and .54 calibers for deer. People have been killing deer with patched round balls for hundreds of years. It's all about accuracy; put it through the lungs and heart, and it will do its job. I don't have any personal experience with the modern sabot rounds, so check with your local game laws as to what is legal in that area. My hunch is that they won't necessarily do the best in most flintlocks, as the average flintlock rifle barrel is intended for PRBs or conicals. I think the intention behind modern sabots in muzzleloaders was to get longer range shots. Most good PRB in the right calibers will work great out to 100 yards if you can do your part, but most of us try to get closer. Heck, where I hunt a shot longer than 75 yards is rare anyway.

Traditions isn't the greatest quality brand, but it's not bad. That specific rifle seems geared to be a hybrid of flintlock and inline characteristics, so perhaps it works better with substitute powders than most flinters. If your primary interest is only to hunt a few days a year, that will probably work. Given your height and weight, it does make sense. But a couple thoughts on that: bottom line, heavier is better up to a certain point.

Are you hunting from a blind or stand, or are you stalking? If from a blind or stand, then all you really have to worry about weight-wise is carrying it in and out. Especially out of a blind or stand, it's always a smarter shot to use a rest if you have the time to get in position, so weight would be less of an issue there, too. Also, heavier rifles are less punishing to shoot. Muzzleloaders don't usually have as intense of recoil as centerfires, but at the powder charges likely to get best accuracy (you're probably in the ball park at 80-90 grains in a .50 or .54 cal) it's still stout, especially at your size. I don't enjoy carrying a 10-pound rifle either, but something in the 7-8 pound range is pretty good.

Last, and probably most importantly, PRACTICE! If you haven't spent much time shooting flintlocks, it takes time to get used to the flash in your face. It doesn't hurt at all. Mostly you can't even see it it happens so fast, but there's a psychological thing about a flash of fire right by your eye that makes most people flinch, and that takes time to work out. Same principle with finding put exactly what makes your rifle work best.

For your money, I'd seriously consider a Lyman Deerstalker or Great Plains. They're very well made, good value, and reliable. Flinters are - addictive. You may find that it won't be your last! Good luck with your search and keep us posted how it goes!

 

[Art Caputo]

Welcome to the site. It’s always nice to to see youn hunters wanting to explore the use of flintlocks for hunting. Like yourself, my intitial motivation for taking up the flintlock was to expand my hunting in neighboring PA’s Flintlock only deer season. Being over 50 years ago, my first flintlock was a 50 cal. CVA Mountain Rifle Kit. Back then, information and assistance was far more difficult to obtain, and most of the learning curve was trial and error. Today, while I partake in all forms of hunting with various types of firearms(and archery), hunting with a traditionally designed flintlock continues to be my most rewarding form of hunting. I can’t say this was the case with all my buddies. For most of them, taking up the flintlock was simply an avenue to kill more deer, with little interest successfully adopting such a very traditional, and perhaps more involved means of hunting,,,,And that’s OK!. But, for a few of us, it stuck, and became a timeless passion, with the attraction of history. I expect this has been the case with the majority of the flintlock shooters/hunters that frequent this site, any most all are more then happy to assist and answer questions. You will find that just about all the questions you asked have been asked, discussed, and are accessible searching the archives of this forum......And much,much more. My advice would be to spend some time on this site, assess your motivation and allure, and upon giving it a try, see if you are inclined to join the ranks.

 

[user 48679]

Welcome to the dark side, Ethan - just know that you're entering into the serious addiction we have here.

While flintlocks are a pleasure to myself and others here, they're not the best gun for entry-level folks.

If you can't or don't want to use Holy Black, the various substitutes usually work OK in most sidelock & underhammer percussion guns - and you can use any projectile you can stuff down the barrel (just don't talk about them here ).

 

[tenngun]

90 grains is a normal charge and not light. I doubt the most of us on this forum use any heavier, and I often use lighter. My last deer was taken with 65 grains, and my normal load in .50 and .54 was 70 grains
What are the laws for Pennsylvanian?
I have heard flintlock and smoothbore but I don’t live there so I have no idea.
Another thing I have no idea about is the size of your deer or the range you can get a shot. For white tails here in the ozarks fifty is a long shot for most of my hunting

 

[Zonie]

Ethan:
First, let me say, we can talk about powder pellets on the forum.
That said, I don't recommend them for several reasons. The first is cost. At Cabela's they want $33 for 100, .50 cal, 50 grain Pyrodex pellets. That works out to $46/pound for powder. Cabela's is selling one pound bottles of loose Pyrodex RS for $25. ($20 for Pyrodex P). By using the loose powder you save $21 per pound.

Those Pyrodex pellets are 50 grain powder loads each. That means you can load either 50 grain or 100 grain loads.
Most muzzleloaders like powder loads in between 50 and 100 grains. Loads like 70 or 80 grains often are the most accurate. If you are shooting pellet powder, you don't have a choice. If your shooting granular powder, you can measure out the best powder load for your gun using a cheap powder measure.
(Because you only have one shot, accuracy is the most important thing when it comes to hunting.)

Speaking of Pyrodex or any of the modern synthetic muzzleloading powders, they work poorly in a flintlock. Even the pellet powders that have a black powder starter on them. The reason is, the flame from the pan flash is weak compared with a percussion cap. For the best, most reliable powder for a flintlock, use real black powder only.
That can create a slight problem. Most gun stores don't carry real black powder. Check out the local stores to see if they have it.
Although real black powder can be ordered for delivery to your door, there might be a problem for a 15 year old ordering it.

As was said, we don't talk about bullets with plastic parts in them or sabots here on the forum. Neither of these existed before 1865.

The Traditions Pa pellet ultralight you mention has a 1:28 twist and says it is designed for modern bullets. That means you won't get good accuracy with a patched roundball.
Here again, the issue of price comes up. You can shoot a .50 cal lead roundball for about 14 cents each. You will be paying someplace around $0.75 and $1.50 each for one of those modern bullets.
I strongly suggest you look for a gun that will shoot patched roundballs. To find the most accurate powder load you may have to shoot as many as 100 shots. At the price of modern bullets, that is a lot of money.

Patched roundballs are not only traditional, their killing power is as good as any of the modern bullets. Just ask the 100's of hunters on the forum who have used them.

I should mention, black powder guns don't kick the way a modern gun does. A modern gun will give a sharp, hard recoil but a muzzleloader kick is more like a strong, hard push. That doesn't mean a 100 grain powder load won't push VERY hard though.

Have fun and, it's good to have you here. Keep looking and asking questions. We will be more than happy to help with any question you might have.

 

[nchawkeye]

A .50 or a .54 caliber using the appropriate round balls with 60-70grs FFF Goex powder is plenty adequate for whitetails...I would suggest finding a good used T/C Hawken or Lyman Plains Rifle, with the slower twist in 1/48 or 1/66...Then you can work with patches and lubes to see which works best in that rifle...

 

[337]

Hello Ethan,
I would look into the traditions deer Hunter with 1:48" twist barrel.
Or check around for used one and also look for a used Thompson center hawken/renegade or Lyman rifles.
Make sure to check the bore for putting or a bulge when buying used.

That would be a good place to start.
For powder go with black powder only like goex 2f or 3f.
For priming the pan you can use 4f or 3f.
Round ball and a patch are good for deer hunting.

Read your owners manual and watch some videos on how to load shoot and clean a muzzleloader there is a ton of info out there.
What part of PA are you located?

 

[olskool]

welcome. the way i look at it is why try to make an old fashion gun something it ain't. if it is just to extend a season till you can use a centerfire and kill a critter i guess, but if you are serious about flintlocks then get a real one. i think during any gun deer season it can be used. i would get a 45 cal. it will kill a deer and with little recoil. about 60 or 70gr of fff real BP and a round ball will do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[michael mcghee]

the older lymans are good. new ones are junk... rmc accusporter everyone says this is a good modern style flintlock.. all the reviews on it is good has a 1-28 twist.. might shoot round balls??? look on gunbroker have about 7 pages of flintlocks.
RMC Accusporter Flintlock Muzzleloader

 

[Crow-Feather]

Ethan, it sounds like you want to hunt flintlock but not necessarily traditional flintlock. This is a traditional muzzle loading forum where people discuss rifles of the 1400 -1850 period rather than the modern muzzle loader.

There are those here that use traditional muzzle loaders to shoot deer. But for them, the focus is not on the deer, but on the rifle used to take the deer. Anyone can shoot a deer. Get a rifle that gives you the ultimate edge and you have the best chance for success. You will be happy and will impress your friends. But after a while, you will discover that there should be more to hunting than having a guide point to a deer and whisper "shoot that one" in your ear. Then you might go for a black powder flinter that works best with black powder, and patch and ball. There will be some still around. May you find what I have found in the enjoyment of a traditional flinter well fed.

 

[Spikebuck]

Hi Ethan. Welcome to our traditional forum.

I have a question. You state you have already ruled out the round ball and conicals. May I ask why? Is this a decision based on something you have personally seen or been involved in or someone you know advising against those projectiles?

You do ask if you need to reconsider that decision. That's up to you, but I can tell you from over 20 years of hunting with them that both provide for quick, clean kills. If you think that perhaps your range is too limited with them just know that ranges exceding 100 yards...and even 200+ are possible with the right load and assuming you've done your homework and can make the shot. Check out posts by Idaho Ron in our hunting forum...he killed his elk this year at 250 yards with a paper patched conical and open sights! Of course there is also great challenge in getting very close to make that one shot count and I venture a guess that most of our hunting shots are at well under 100 yards.

Net, what you shoot is up to you and what you personally want from the sport. Traditional equipment is more than up to the challenge if you are.

 

[Herd48]

Ethan. Welcome. Depending on where you live in Pennsylvania, I would first recommend Dixon’s. They’re located in Kempton. Easy to find them on the internet. There are other gun shops that specialize in muzzle loaders. As mentioned, you’ll have to go with flintlock in your state so stick to real black powder. Good luck.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Check out this rifle Thompson/Center Arms T/C TC Model Fire Storm .50 Cal 26" Flintlock Rifle - Black Powder Rifles & Muzzleloader Rifles at GunBroker.com : 885724245

 

[psushchyk]

I would keep to a patched round ball .45 to .50 cal. and use black powder. Lots of white tail deer killed with one since the days of Simon Kenton.

You want to get in close by stalking your game and place your shot well. You need to practice not flinching when the pan ignites. Use the smallest amount of black powder in the pan.

What is your length of pull (LOP?). Do you have the ability (or know anyone to assist you) to assemble a rifle? See this link: Jim Chambers Flintlocks . The youth rifle has a 13" LOP and a 34" barrel, which may make it easier to use in the PA woods.

Best of luck!

 

[Ricb]

Ethan, you are getting excellent advice here! I would suggest that you look for a Thompson Center or CVA .45 or .50 caliber Hawken as a good start in the flintlock world. They haven’t been made for quite a while, so they can be found well within your price range. Remember that you will also need various accessories such as a powder measure, short starter, cleaning supplies, flints, jag, etc. A patched round ball in either caliber will drop any deer you will encounter in PA if you do your job. No need for any sort of fancy modern bullets.

 

[Zing]

Ethan, it is great to see you interested in muzzleloaders. The Lyman Great Plains rifle is one of my favorite cap lock rifles. I use a southwest Virginia flintlock now In 50cal and shoot patched round balls. I am not sure about the quality of the newer Lyman’s, I have had mine for almost 25 years. The do have them in flintlock and around your budget. The key to it is practice. Try to find somewhere by you that you can pickup and hold one or any others that you are interested in. Good luck and like everyone else has said it is addicting and most importantly fun.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There is often a feeling that overkill is necessary when hunting deer. Firstly: you can't overkill, ded is ded. All my ml deer have been killed with a patched round ball and 65 gr. of real black powder. They was plenty ded with one shot.

 

[M. De Land]

I’m a 15 year old boy who’s trying to get into the world of flintlock hunting to extend the notoriously strict Pennsylvania deer season. There seems to be quite a lot to know and not a lot of information for beginners to start. I’m only 111 lbs and 5 foot 5. I therefore want to have a relatively light weight gun with more modern specs and to use a light charge, however I’m not sure what deems a charge as light, it seems like ninety grains or less? Also, the main gun I’m looking at is a traditions pa pellet ultralight for its modern specs such as a removable breach plug. However, some people really seem to hate traditions. I would like to keep the cost under $555 if possible but budget isn’t a super big deal. Additionally, what kind of ammo should I use? I’ve already ruled out the conical and round ball, but am I too quick to do so? I’ve heard great things about Barnes sabots, but I’m not sure which one within their line to get. What kind of grain bullet should I get? Are Powerbelts better? Also, I’d like to be able to ram the bullets in by myself so an easier loading bullet would definitely be something I would factor in. Lastly, what powder will I need for the pan? If there is anything else you would like to add such as tips for shooting etc feel free to add on. ANY help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Ethan Rubin

You must be a home school'er or Christian school'er from how well you articulate your thoughts in print! I think you will be much happier if you go the traditional flint gun route than the modern inlines . We will be able to help you here then.