Need help finishing a gun stock

[ballandcap]

Hello, I just got a used Pedersoli Flint Kentucky rifle for a good price. The stock looked pretty decent but old and didn't really looked sealed well. I thought I could make it look much better. I wanted it darker so I started to lightly sand so I could add a few more coats of stain and then seal. Well the next thing I know I was on my way to sanding this thing down to bare wood. I don't know what I was thinking.


I bought a Birchwood Casey gun finihsing kit. I had done 2 others and turned out ok. Neither of those did I use the wood filling step. I decided I would on this one for best results. I used the water based walnut stain it came with first and used three coats to get to the desired darkness. The next step said to apply 1 coat of tru oil and let dry 24 hours. I did that. The next step was to add tru oil in 4" squares and sand with 180 grit wet/dry to get a "slurry of wood dust" and then work in a circular motion into the grain and then wipe off cross grain.

As I started to sand, the dark walnut color started sanding right off. Next thing I knew I was down to lighter colored wood. The stain sanded easier off in places and I tried my best to sand so that the color was as uniform as I could get it. Well as you can se by the pictures this is not 3 coats of walnut stain and far from uniform. I will do 1 more wood filling step so that I will fill the pores and grain that are not filled now. After that when I put the tru oil on will it make the color uniform or will it look as nasty as it does now just shinier? Can I add more stain after I do another wood filling step? Would oil based stain help because I belive the tru oil is? I do not want to strip it at this point, it's been a lot of work. Please help, I am just so frustrated. Below are the pics of how it looks now for you to view. It was really a terrible piece of wood under the stain. A lot of patches and fills, but as it was stained I could not really tell initially. You can tell just how uneven the stain is, especially around the wrist area.

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Here is how it looked before I "fixed it"!




:cursing:

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[renovato]

I've never had success with Birchwood Casey's stain. It's always patchy and too red when I've tried it.

I don't think you're going to be able to get it to take stain with the wood filler in the pores, though you might test a spirit based stain to see if it'll penetrate the filler.

I'd suggest using stripper to remove the filler and trying to stain again. If you want to fill the pores, they make clear filler that doesn't require slurry sanding. That's an art in itself and I've messed up more than one stain job trying to fill it that way.

Good luck with your project, and have patience. You can fix this and when you do, the stock will be beautiful.

 

[roundball]

Don't know if that wood is walnut or what, but I've refinished several TC Hawken walnut stocks after having them stripped to the raw wood at a commercial chemical stripping booth...with the first one I tried I found putting any stain on made it too dark after applying several coats of Tru-Oil afterwards...so I've just used coats of Tru-Oil on every stock since...very light strokes of 0000 steel wool, then the next coat, etc.
Multiple coats of Tru-Oil darkens walnut all by themselves...and REALLY makes the grain and figure stand out beautifully without stain being in the wood

 

[ballandcap]

Yes it is walnut. At this point the color is very patchy. I really don't want to strip this unless I have to. But really don't want to....

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

You might consider giving WATCO oil a try. It's spirit based. You can find it usually in three shades of walnut, light, medium and dark.
If the original stain on the stock was oil or spirit based, you might have a devil of a time getting it to stain evenly with a water based stain. I'd sand it a bit and strip it with alcohol or something similar, then apply the WATCO oil. I would apply the WATCO until the wood could not take it anymore. Let it dry, rub it down, and see if you can do one more coat. when you get the color you like, oil it. Something to think about. :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

Because Tru-Oil seals the wood as long as it in on the surface there are no stains that will darken it.

Oil based stains are very poor for darkening gunstocks because they saturate the wood with oil and prevent a buildup of stain which would darken the wood.

Tru-Oil is slightly yellow but more coats of it will not make any notable difference in the darkness of your stock.

The only way out of this dilemma is to remove the coats of Tru-Oil and "kill" any of the oil that is holding your grain filling material.
Things such as Disk Brake Cleaner, Lacquer thinner, Acetone or MEK will do that.

After all traces of oil are gone first use the alcohol based stains to darken the wood to the color you want.
Then use some Birchwood Casey Walnut grain filler to fill the grain. If you have some sanding dust you can make your own like you did before but notice that you don't sand the "stained" wood while or before using it.
Even the best alcohol based stains only penetrate a little ways so any sanding done after staining will lighten the color and basically ruin the nice staining you did.
Follow this with the Tru-Oil top coats.
Tru-Oil will dry to a fairly high gloss.
If you want a soft velvet look use some Birchwood Casey Stock Sheen after the final coat.
If you want a dull look, some 0000 steel wool will give that to the final coat.

 

[rafterob]

I've had the same issues with water based stain, where it doesn't seem to really soak in to the wood and stays at the surface. When you lightly sand it more comes off than you want. Re-stain and use a light touch with steel wool. As many coats as it takes to get an even finish. I will say however that your grain looks good now and don't think you have too much work to go. Whatever sealing finish you put on will help to mellow it all out.

 

[Allan Gray]

I feel your pain...been there. I think everyone whose ever finished a piece of wood has said, "if I do more coat", "if I sand a little here"...etc.

No worries. These things almost always work out for the better.
Don't be too afraid of stripping. This doesn't mean you need to soak the stock in some goopey toxic waste. Try rubbing the stock with fine steel wool or better yet a fine scotch brite pad soaked with turpentine. This should work up the pigments from the stain and you can wipe them off with a rag. At the very worst it should help blend the patchyness. If turpentine doesn't cut it, go to lacquer thinner, and so on.

You will be left with a lighter, more uniform stock. Get the shade you like with a new stain since you prefer a darker finish. Build the color up thinly and slowly, never "goop" on stain. Avoid water based stains, nothing but trouble.

If Tru Oil is too glossy for your taste, wait 'till it's good and cured and buff very lightly with 0000 steel wool and good 'ol paste floor wax, let dry, wipe with a smooth rag.

'Take rifle outside and shoot often. It will grow a natural patina in time.

 

[William Joy]

Before you strip the stock( best option), I would clean with MEK on steel wool as much as possible ( doesn't matter if you rub through the finish), then apply a shellack wash coat ( this will stop the uneveness in colour when applying stain) and then stain with "Trans Tint" . Then to finish the stock, I would apply a mixture of linseed oil mixed with varnish or Japan drier. The trans tint can also be mixed into the linseed oil mix to get an even better result. Finally finish with a good wax.

 

[Zonie]

All of the shellac I've ever used seals the wood.
Although shellac is a alcohol based finish, after the alcohol has evaporated the remaining "lac" is very resistant to penetration by any fluid or solvent.
If a builder wants to stain the wood with a normal alcohol based stain IMO, they should not use shellac prior to staining.

 

[William Joy]

I agree with you to some extend.... However a shellac wash coat is extremly diluted . Also if you use dye ( i.e. Trans Tint) you can use it even as a finish toner direct in shellac as a finish. On top of it, it is easier to work with dyes, as you can mix them, to obtain the exact colour without getting " mud".

 

[ballandcap]

Wow, I sure appreciate all of the responses. There is a lot of great advice here that I will use and reference in years to come. This is only my 3rd stock I have tried to finish and was the one I was trying to get the best results from. So I followed the Caseys instructions to a T. I added the slurry sanding step on this one, I sure think they should state to sand lighty and cautiously watching for the sanding off of stain and creating uneveness in color. I grabbed my sanding block and went to town not knowing any better or even thinking about the stain. About four strokes and had the light line already in the wood under the stain, from there it was too late!

I probably won’t strip this stock as of now. I have slurry sanded 1 more time and evened up the stain better but far from perfect. Have put a few coats of tru oil on, will polish and condition stock and see how I like it. It has kind of grown on me because I have looked at it daily for the last few days. If not then I’ll live with it for a while then redo. I do have another gun or two and will probably these techniques on. As I stated I really don’t want to strip this stock now after all the work ( I am just very frustrated with this one inparticular), and is turning out acceptable but not at all what I was after. I did not strip it initially just sanded all the stain off. Never really worked with wood finishes and did not know what chemicals would do to wood. Sounds like nothing except to strip much easier. I have used tru oil but 3 times and have had a few problems. Tacks up too quick, too shiny, very hard to smooth without fingerprints/grooves, runs or streaks. Maybe I could thin it up a bit, probably would at least help me.

All in all not very user friendly for the novice on a sealed piece of wood so far that I have had luck with. I’ll redo a Thompson Hawken stock soon with a nice grain and am sure it will turn out very nice if I strip and take caution while following much of the advice here. Thank you for all the responses and the info. Sounds like you all are speaking from a lot of experience that I wish I would have had before getting an unexpected outcome. I just had very high hopes and have let myself down..... for now at least. I will post the final pics in a few days and hope to get honest opinions on the looks. It kind of looks like an older stock now with some wear which might look fairly decent. Thank you again!

 

[Zonie]

Another bit of advice about your Thompson Center Hawken.

If you strip and sand the stock down to the bare wood, get a wet washrag and your sanded stock.
Go outside on a sunny day and wet the wood with the washrag.
The color and appearance of the wood is exactly what you will end up with if you do nothing except apply linseed oil or Tru-Oil without using any stains at all.

If you want the wood to be darker than the wet wood then go ahead and apply coatings of diluted stain but be sure to look at the color in bright sunlight while the stain is still wet.

When stains dry they always look much lighter in color than they will be once the oils are applied to finish the stock.

 

[ballandcap]

Well here is what I ended up with. It is way too light. Guess I was hoping for a miracle and it would darken up some. Looks like I'll be stripping it soon but just need a little break from it and the frustration. Guess I'll be getting some practice now. Thanks for the responses and I'll put them to good use within the next few weeks.

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[paulvallandigham]

You can remove that finnish with liberal coats of alcohol, or by using Acetone. Nasty stuff, so use them both outdoors, and stay down wind. You don't want to be breathing in the fumes. Once the stock finish is removed. wash the stock down with a rag and warm water to raise the grain. Now, let it dry for 24 hours, at least, and then begin the staining process you select. Once you think its the right color, wipe the stock with water and a cloth out in direct sunlight, to see what the stock will look like when you have put the finnish on it. That way, you won't have to strip the stock, and start all over again.

When staining, you are always going to find dark and light spots on a wood stock. Its the nature of the wood. You can control what it looks like by rubbing in more and removing stain during the process, to make the stock appear to stain more evenly. I also recommend using alcohol based stains, as they seem to work very well, and when desired, you can thin them to lighten them with alcohol to get just the color you desire.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

For some reason that does not look like walnut at all to me :hmm: Looks almost like the European hardwood my Tradition's Crockett is made of.

 

[ballandcap]

Actually I am not sure of the wood. Somebody had said the stock on this type of gun should be walnut, so I just assumed they were correct. But it does not have the grain that walnut does like on my TC stocks, so I really was just guessing.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't think its walnut, either, but Its hard to tell from pictures what it is. It looks like White Oak, or even Ash to me, but that is just my guess based on the grain pattern I am seeing. Its too open to be Birch, or Maple, IMHO, and its certainly NOT walnut.

 

[Old40Rod]

Beech, perhaps?

 

[Goldhunter]

That's my guess. It looks like the stock on my father's CVA. :hmm: