Need help identifying 18th Century Military Musket

[jhealey1955]

I was hoping someone here might be able to identify what era, region of origin, and stye or pattern my old 18th century (best guess) flintlock musket is based off of. What I can tell you is that it is 56" long, with a 41.5" barrel channel. Disregard the trigger guard and lock work as seen in the photos below, as they are modern reproductions that were added to it at some point in its more recent past””and I can tell with the trigger guard especially, based on the grooves cut in the wood””that the gun originally had a different style of guard altogether. It is unfortunately missing its barrel, as well.

I figured it might make a good project, seeing as the stock itself is in decent shape, however I'd like to know what style of lock work to purchase (I'd like a more period correct looking piece than what is on there now), and also what type of barrel to have made for it. Any insights as to what this might be would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TFoley]

Actually, Sir, what you have is an 18th century musket stock, with two surviving ramrod pipes and a buttplate.

Out of the 'lock' stock and barrel' all you have is the stock.

Howsomeforthever, the relative slimth of the stock leads me to the French end of the market.

Hope this helps a little....

tac

 

[Mike Brooks]

Going to need to see more pictures to be of help.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

And a neutral background, a solid background makes it easier to see.

 

[nkmprdstr]

Definately need a few moe pix. Close ups of butt stock and ramrod thimbles. A few starter questions. Is the butt plate still on it andwhat is it made of, brass or steel? Same thing with the ramrod thimbles, brass or steel? From what I can see here, I also lean toward early French, this based on what can be seen of the comb shape. It would be a hand full to make "right" again and don't see where any value to it would be 'ceptin' a course sentmentality for other reasons...Good luck.

 

[jhealey1955]

Thanks for the replies thus far. The ramrod thimbles and buttplate appear to be made of brass. The buttplate is completely flat against the butt of the stock, and does not curve around the top or bottom of the stock. Additionally, the trigger appears original, is flat faced, and looks to be made of iron or steel. I've attached a few additional photos, which will enlarge if clicked on.

 

[Mike Brooks]

How about a picture of what is left of the old trigger guard inlet?

 

[nkmprdstr]

Thanks for the additional pix. First off, it's a confuser. Without the barrel and lock for further ID items. Architecture suggests maybe French, but on the inexpensive "trade guns" ie; Tulle's and such, furniture was iron. Even with the repair, it is evident there has never been a side plate on it, also suggesting non-military. It's almost a process of what it isn't. Butt plate suggests Dutch, but then again from what I can see, the architecture just doesn't seem right. My best guess, as it stands, is probably a Belgium or even Spanish trade gun. Both copied British and French characteristics. I had what I swore was a French Trade gun, but something about it just kept bothering me. After a lot of research, with the help of some friends, it turned out to be Spanish. It was just a fluke that we figured it out, so let's keep a pluggin' away on this.

Dick

 

[Mike Brooks]

Ok, if we're just guessing. I see nothing French about this gun at all. I'm guessing a colonial made parts gun. I'm also guessing the barrel was a bit longer than the stock for a bayonet attachment.
I'm wondering how large the breech inlet is also. If it had a large diameter barrel in it it could have been a large wild fowling gun. It's very crude, far more crude that anything you would expect to come out of europe.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Yup. The butt plate and ramrod thimble don't look European or military at all. They look more homemade and the width of the buttplate is very narrow--too much so for a military piece. Maybe a "bitsa" gun from America. Sure would like to see the lock mortise and barrel channel and a close up of the tang area.

 

[jhealey1955]

I can take measurements and add more photos...What exactly is the "breech inlet"? I'll take a picture of the trigger guard inlet...though sadly, someone filled it in with wood filler goop (I'm sure I can remove it though). Also, what is the lock mortise? Additionally, I would concur with Mike””the build quality is very crude.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I can take measurements and add more photos...What exactly is the "breech inlet"? I'll take a picture of the trigger guard inlet...though sadly, someone filled it in with wood filler goop (I'm sure I can remove it though). Also, what is the lock mortise? Additionally, I would concur with Mike””the build quality is very crude.

The lock mortise is the inlet for the lock itself. The lock must be removed. The breech inlet is the entire tang and breech area inlet for the rear of the barrel. It can give an idea of the type of barrel used. The shape of the trigger guard inlet also provides a lot of information.

 

[spudnut]

I vote for a belgium

 

[jhealey1955]

Here are the additional photos, sorry for the delay.

As you can see from the photos, the woodwork is very crude. In photo 4 (4th down from the top), the area that was filled in with wood filler (hard to see exactly where it is, but it is slightly reddish and more textured than the surrounding areas) is where the original hand/trigger guard was.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

To me it's looking more like a "bitsa" gun. Maybe an old musket barrel and lock and some odd pieces of furniture on a homemade/Colonial made stock. The buttstock looks less like a true military stock and more like a home made interpretation of one. Definitely interesting.

 

[jhealey1955]

If measurements would be of any use, i.e. the barrel channel, where exactly should I measure? Someone mentioned that it might have been an early fowling piece.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That's a possibility as some fowlers were made up of old musket parts and new or used furniture on a new made stock.

To measure barrel length, start at the end of the barrel inlet nearest the lock and measure out to the end of the stock. This isn't always accurate as stocks were often cut back at the muzzle to accomodate a bayonet. But you have to go with what you have.