Need help identifying inherited 60-62 caliper percussion long rifle - D R Estill on barrel

[JohnC50]

I have an old rifle that has been in "my" family for at least 5 generations. It is 58" long and weighs 17.2 lbs. Octagon barrel is 42" long and 1 1/4" wide and appears to be a 60 - 62 caliper. The percussion mechanism plate says T. Neave & Sons, Cincinnati (this mechanism appears to be a replacement of an earlier mechanism from the way the wood is carved around it). The barrel is stamped D. R. ESTILL. The stock appears to be Tiger Maple. Looks like additional sights were added at some time pre-1960. I remember my grandfather firing the rifle in the late 1950's. Any idea what I have? Estimated value? Where I would sell it?

 

[poker]

Its an old target rifle. It appears to have had the lock changed at some point. As far as value, theres a lot more to consider than a couple pictures. Stick around a while, post some, and soon you can list it on the forum.

 

[JohnC50]

Its an old target rifle. It appears to have had the lock changed at some point. As far as value, theres a lot more to consider than a couple pictures. Stick around a while, post some, and soon you can list it on the forum.

Thank you... will follow your advice.

 

[Tanselman]

The barrel was from a David Rogers Estill rifle. Estill worked at Poplar Plains in Fleming County, Kentucky, from about 1820 until after 1860. He made good quality, but rather plain, full-stocked rifles for most of his life. I think your rifle is made up of parts from several older guns, along with the newer sights for target shooting. Several stocking details are not correct for an Estill rifle. He used a slight curve or "fish belly" in the lower butt line of his rifles, and his rear sight was placed about two inches behind the rear ramrod pipe. His rear ramrod pipe never had a flange, or tail, on it; instead, it was slightly funneled at the rear where it butted up against the forestock. His combs were usually not as "strong," or pronounced, as on this rifle. The side facings are not the correct shape for an Estill rifle, nor is the lock bolt washer. The guard may have come from a late Estill rifle, but that is not certain. The triggers are definitely not from an Estill gun.

Many of these old target rifles were made up of "available" antique parts taken from salvaged old rifles and reworked into an accurate shooting target rifle. Parts were selected by the builder/shooter based on the style he preferred, and what was most comfortable for him to shoot. You have a neat old target rifle that probably performed very well at one time, with a good quality barrel "borrowed" from an original David Estill rifle, but other parts of the gun appear to be from other sources, or resources, the builder/shooter had at his disposal.

With that said, I've never seen an Estill chunk gun [and I've seen, owned, or handled over 20 Estill rifles], so could you post a picture of the rear ramrod pipe and ifs flange [or lack thereof], and also a view showing both the rear sight and rear ramrod pipe in same view, so we can see if they might possibly relate to an Estill rifle?

Shelby Gallien

 

[JohnC50]

The barrel was from a David Rogers Estill rifle. Estill worked at Poplar Plains in Fleming County, Kentucky, from about 1820 until after 1860. He made good quality, but rather plain, full-stocked rifles for most of his life. I think your rifle is made up of parts from several older guns, along with the newer sights for target shooting. Several stocking details are not correct for an Estill rifle. He used a slight curve or "fish belly" in the lower butt line of his rifles, and his rear sight was placed about two inches behind the rear ramrod pipe. His rear ramrod pipe never had a flange, or tail, on it; instead, it was slightly funneled at the rear where it butted up against the forestock. His combs were usually not as "strong," or pronounced, as on this rifle. The side facings are not the correct shape for an Estill rifle, nor is the lock bolt washer. The guard may have come from a late Estill rifle, but that is not certain. The triggers are definitely not from an Estill gun.

Many of these old target rifles were made up of "available" antique parts taken from salvaged old rifles and reworked into an accurate shooting target rifle. Parts were selected by the builder/shooter based on the style he preferred, and what was most comfortable for him to shoot. You have a neat old target rifle that probably performed very well at one time, with a good quality barrel "borrowed" from an original David Estill rifle, but other parts of the gun appear to be from other sources, or resources, the builder/shooter had at his disposal.

With that said, I've never seen an Estill chunk gun [and I've seen, owned, or handled over 20 Estill rifles], so could you post a picture of the rear ramrod pipe and ifs flange [or lack thereof], and also a view showing both the rear sight and rear ramrod pipe in same view, so we can see if they might possibly relate to an Estill rifle?

Shelby Gallien

Wow. I’m not sure how to thank you enough for this detailed information! Amazing Shelby - thank you.

 

[JohnC50]

Wow. I’m not sure how to thank you enough for this detailed information. Thank you Shelby.

 

[JohnC50]

The barrel was from a David Rogers Estill rifle. Estill worked at Poplar Plains in Fleming County, Kentucky, from about 1820 until after 1860. He made good quality, but rather plain, full-stocked rifles for most of his life. I think your rifle is made up of parts from several older guns, along with the newer sights for target shooting. Several stocking details are not correct for an Estill rifle. He used a slight curve or "fish belly" in the lower butt line of his rifles, and his rear sight was placed about two inches behind the rear ramrod pipe. His rear ramrod pipe never had a flange, or tail, on it; instead, it was slightly funneled at the rear where it butted up against the forestock. His combs were usually not as "strong," or pronounced, as on this rifle. The side facings are not the correct shape for an Estill rifle, nor is the lock bolt washer. The guard may have come from a late Estill rifle, but that is not certain. The triggers are definitely not from an Estill gun.

Many of these old target rifles were made up of "available" antique parts taken from salvaged old rifles and reworked into an accurate shooting target rifle. Parts were selected by the builder/shooter based on the style he preferred, and what was most comfortable for him to shoot. You have a neat old target rifle that probably performed very well at one time, with a good quality barrel "borrowed" from an original David Estill rifle, but other parts of the gun appear to be from other sources, or resources, the builder/shooter had at his disposal.

With that said, I've never seen an Estill chunk gun [and I've seen, owned, or handled over 20 Estill rifles], so could you post a picture of the rear ramrod pipe and ifs flange [or lack thereof], and also a view showing both the rear sight and rear ramrod pipe in same view, so we can see if they might possibly relate to an Estill rifle?

Shelby Gallien

 

[JohnC50]

The barrel was from a David Rogers Estill rifle. Estill worked at Poplar Plains in Fleming County, Kentucky, from about 1820 until after 1860. He made good quality, but rather plain, full-stocked rifles for most of his life. I think your rifle is made up of parts from several older guns, along with the newer sights for target shooting. Several stocking details are not correct for an Estill rifle. He used a slight curve or "fish belly" in the lower butt line of his rifles, and his rear sight was placed about two inches behind the rear ramrod pipe. His rear ramrod pipe never had a flange, or tail, on it; instead, it was slightly funneled at the rear where it butted up against the forestock. His combs were usually not as "strong," or pronounced, as on this rifle. The side facings are not the correct shape for an Estill rifle, nor is the lock bolt washer. The guard may have come from a late Estill rifle, but that is not certain. The triggers are definitely not from an Estill gun.

Many of these old target rifles were made up of "available" antique parts taken from salvaged old rifles and reworked into an accurate shooting target rifle. Parts were selected by the builder/shooter based on the style he preferred, and what was most comfortable for him to shoot. You have a neat old target rifle that probably performed very well at one time, with a good quality barrel "borrowed" from an original David Estill rifle, but other parts of the gun appear to be from other sources, or resources, the builder/shooter had at his disposal.

With that said, I've never seen an Estill chunk gun [and I've seen, owned, or handled over 20 Estill rifles], so could you post a picture of the rear ramrod pipe and ifs flange [or lack thereof], and also a view showing both the rear sight and rear ramrod pipe in same view, so we can see if they might possibly relate to an Estill rifle?

Shelby Gallien

Shelby, here are some more pics. The rear ramrod pipe is about 2 1/2" from the rear sight.

 

[JohnC50]

Still getting the hang of this forum... sending pics you requested again. The rear ramrod pipe seems to be about 2 1/2" behind the rear rifle sight.

 

[Tanselman]

John,

After seeing these additional pictures of your rifle and knowing it's a heavy barreled target/chunk type rifle, you may actually have an original, but modified, David Estill rifle. Your new images show the rear ramrod pipe to be properly funneled at the rear without a rear flange [as it should be on an Estill rifle], and the rear sight is set back about 2" behind the rear ramrod pipe. The "odd" stock details may in fact be caused by building such a heavy rifle, which was very uncommon for him. But now I think you may have one, and the rarity of being a chunk gun by Estill caused the small changes to some areas. The stock looks old and original and "of the period."

His work usually has a smooth top butt plate return [no small ridge], and his ramrod pipes are usually round, not faceted, as on this rifle. But after seeing the rear pipe shape and rear sight location, these small changes may well be due to making a much heavier, more specialized rifle. Also note the barrel has been significantly shortened, as determined by the much shorter distance between the outer two ramrod pipes compared to the longer distance between the entry pipe and middle pipe. It was probably shortened at the muzzle based on still having its original rear sight position [which would have been moved farther back if shortened at breech and the barrel slid back accordingly]. A later owner probably wanted to lighten the heavy rifle to make it easier to handle, so he cut off part of the outer barrel. These old chunk guns often had very long barrels to start with and were very heavy.

The triggers still look "borrowed" from a different rifle and are similar in style to triggers used on the better "Lexington style" rifles from Kentucky. The shooter may have wanted higher grade triggers than what were originally on the gun, so he switched them out.

Hope this helps you.

Shelby Gallien

 

[JohnC50]

Shelby, your help has been above any of my expectations. Thank you for sharing your knowledge ... which has clearly been built over many years of interest and dedication.

Not sure what I will do with the "chunk" ... but it will now carry a story with it.

Thank you, John Castle