Need help on my first choice.

[splinter84]

Hey guys/gals

I am brand new to the Traditional Muzzleloading Forum here. I have shot my neighbors 50 cal CVA Hawken a bit last summer, and really enjoyed the whole experience. I also borrowed it for 3 days of hunting with him as well.

I am looking for my first percussion rifle, and will be strictly using PRB. I have my selection narrowed down to 3 choices based primarily on cost and function first, reviews and research I have found online second, and looks/appeal lastly.

This will be my first muzzleloader used primarily as a hunting gun in heavily wooded areas, and occasionally open land hunting. I am hoping to practice with it often this summer so it will see plenty of range time as well. Oh”¦and I am set on the 54 cal and a price range under $500.

I would like to go new on my first one. I am not very educated on inspecting used muzzleloaders. Therefore, it would probably be my safest route for my first one.

I understand that these posts are a dime a dozen, but I believe everyone has different conditions when choosing their first rifle. I really would appreciate any info pertaining to these models. If you have another model in mind feel free to post.

Ok”¦.here is the lineup. I have listed a few questions and concerns on each model. I am looking for some input on these rifles.

1. Lyman GPR ”“ Current best price $480 on Midsouth Shooter Supply. The 1:60 twist ratio seems very appealing to other PRB shooters from what I have read. I am concerned about the longer barrel -length in the woods, the weight, and finding a hard case for transporting it. It is a longer rifle. Are typical plastic cases like a cheap Plano too short for this rifle? I really like the aesthetics of this rifle as well. From what I read it is a great rifle with a great repetition.

2. Dixie Hawken ”“ Current best price $435 on Dixie Gun Works. It comes with a 1:48 twist ratio. I have read mixed reviews about this twist when using strictly 54 cal PRB. Aesthetically it is a great looking Hawken for the price. Built by Investarms I believe. The barrel is 4” shorter than the GPR, which would make it a little easier to swing in the woods. In my opinion.

3. Lyman Trade ”“ Current best price of $380 on Midsouth Shooter Supply. 1:48 twist ratio again. No inlay patch box. Not quite as fancy as the Dixie, but for the cost savings not a deal breaker. I am not familiar with the single trigger on it which is the reason I placed this rifle below the Dixie for now. Will the single trigger be a harder pull then the double trigger system? For me it really is a tossup between the Dixie and Trade if I opt for a shorter barrel length.

I have been doing a lot of reading on clean supplies and loading as well. I have some questions on some of that stuff too, but I figured I would save that for a different post. Thanks again!

 

[rafterob]

If your primary use is woods hunting I believe you will appreciate the shorter models. I have both 28" and 32" "Hawken" stlye rifles and the added weight and length of the longer barrel puts it in second place when I go hunting. It is however my favorite target rifle. The Dixie is an investarms-Italian made, it is the same as Cabela's Hawken. The Lyman rifles are also Italian made, possibly the same makers? Both are quality rifles and will serve you well. Most guys don't even use the patch boxes on their rifles so the Trade rifle might do ya and save some $$$.

 

[splinter84]

Thanks for the quick reply. Are famaliar with the Lyman Trade single trigger by chance? That is my main concern with the rifle since I am not familiar with the trigger pull on it. I have shot double trigger sets before though.

 

[cynthialee]

If your primary use is as a hunting rifle in the woods I would suggest the shorter barrel rifles. Hawken style is a good idea. This last fall was my first muzzle loader hunt and I carried a T/C Hawken. I was very happy I did. My hunting partner had a L o n g Rifle and it seemed to be a PITA for him. (although his gun made meat and mine sat unfired through the season) lol

If'n I were you (and I am not) I would look for a used T/C Renegade (or a Hawken) in good condition. The size is about the same as a Hawken and the .54 PRB will certainly put a hurt on your game.

 

[jdkerstetter]

At 50" of O.A.L. the GPR fits fine about any plastic gun carrier available. People get wrapped up with the 32" barrel length but don't take into consideration that without the "action" of modern firearm behind it, it is actually the same length of a shorter barreled CF arm....shorter than a 26" barreled bolt gun and much shorter than a 30" barreled pump or semi-auto shotgun.

The longer 1:66" twist barrel as a couple of advantages. First is sight radius. The longer the distance between your front and rear sights the greater your potential accuracy. That's one of the reasons why target shooters prefer tang mounted peep sights.

Second is the slower twist rate. 1:48" barrels shoot roundballs just fine but their power to accuarcy "sweet spot" tends to be on the lower end. Since this will be a hunting arm you will want to wring as much accuarcy out of it as possible with stouter loads so the 1:66" is recommended.

Of the 3 choices provided I obviously come down on the side of the GPR as it has the 1:66" twist.

Good luck with your decision and Enjoy, J.D.

 

[David W.]

I have no problems with my 40" squirrel rifle, or my 36" Hawken, but that's my opinion.

I never shot with a single trigger.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I have only handled one Lyman Trade rifle and the trigger was not heavy. Compared to a set trigger that is set, it is, but for a hunting gun it’s pretty good. I have read of only one trigger problem with the LTR and that was caused by a sliver of wood in the lock mortise. That was easily fixed by scraping the wood out a little with a pocket knife.

Length is not a problem many people on this forum hunt in very dense brush with rifles and smoothbores with 42 to 46 inch barrels without a problem. Weight on the other hand is a different issue. I have hunted in very dense brush with Lyman GPR and after a few hours of still hunting it does wear on your arms. I have never hunted from a tree stand so I don’t know about that. I have hunted from a ground blind and that, of course, was a lot easier.

 

[splinter84]

You fellas are not much help! :haha: Only kidding guys!!!

Thanks for the info on these rifles. Still up in the air at the moment but I am weighing towards the GPR. I appreciate the comments. It appears that all three will suit me just fine considering my price point. The GPR might be a tad better for PRB. Like I mentioned. I know nothing about picking out good used models online or in stores. I think I might be best off with a new model for my first time around.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Let me add to your dilemma, most original J. & S. and S. Hawken rifles had a 1:48 twist. So don’t discount those rifles for that. When it comes to PRB the type of rifling is more important than the twist rate. If the rifling is deep but a little fast it will still shoot a PRB very well. Shallow rifle will not shoot PRB as well over a wider range of loads like the deeper rifling.

 

[cowpoke1955]

All of your picks are made by Investarms . I have two .54 GPRs, one percussion and one flint. The percussion was my first muzzle loader I bought over 35 years ago and never had a problem. I have hunted just fine in heavily wooded forests. I have also used it in several matches . The exrea barrel length adds a little weight to the muzzle, which gives you a more stable off hand shot. The GPR is the only one on your list with the slower twist, 1 in 60". The others have 1 in 48" twist. The GPR is truely a round ball rifle. I get excellent accuracy out to 100 yards. I bought a .54 Lyman Trade Rifle a few months back, but haven't had nuch time to play with it. It does have a nice trigger pull. Both Lymans come with a fixed primitive rear sight and an adjustable rear sight. Personally, I like the primitive rear sight better. Yhe Dixie and Cabela's Hawkens are exactly the same, just different stamping on the barrels. They also have 1 in 48" twist barrels. For looks, relibility and shooting round balls, The GPR is the only way to go :thumbsup:

 

[splinter84]

You mentioned you own a Lyman Trade once. Is there a set action in the single trigger at all? Or is it pull once and bang? Just curious how the single trigger system actually functions on it.

I am familiar with lever action rifles. Own a couple myself. Without knowing any better, I would assume the single trigger system in this case is similiar?

 

[splinter84]

Thanks for the info cowpoke. It sounds like the GPR is worth the extra $100 compared to the Trade.

 

[David W.]

Your best choice, IMO.

You fellas are not much help! :haha: Only kidding guys!!!

Thanks for the info on these rifles. Still up in the air at the moment but I am weighing towards the GPR. I appreciate the comments. It appears that all three will suit me just fine considering my price point. The GPR might be a tad better for PRB. Like I mentioned. I know nothing about picking out good used models online or in stores. I think I might be best off with a new model for my first time around.

 

[Trot]

Don't worry about the 1 in 48" twist, it will work fine for roundballs. I have a Cabela's Hawken fifty caliber in percussion and it is extremely accurate, also have the Trade rifle in .54 flintlock, also very accurate. I took a deer at 105 yards with the trade rifle, complete pass through. The trigger pull on the Trade rifle is just a plain single trigger, just pull to shoot.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Get the Lyman GPR in a .54
You will NEVER be sorry you did!!!
Its a GREAT shooting gun.
Its looks are appealing.
The .54 in a rondball is big enough for the biggest deer and adaquate for elk, black bear, Hogs, and Buffalo..
Fun to shoot and easy to pour your own round balls for.

Let us know....

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I was in my local Cabelas in Rogers Arkansas and in the Bargen area is a Italian made Hawkens rifel. It has a short 18 inch barrel and is in .50 cal. They were wanting $348 for it.
Here is the number if you want it. I believe they can mail it to ya. If they cant show you a picture let me know and I will take a picture of it.

Cabelas
2300 Promenade Boulevard
Rogers, AR 72758
Phone: (479) 616-1925

 

[splinter84]

I was in my local Cabelas in Rogers Arkansas and in the Bargen area is a Italian made Hawkens rifel. It has a short 18 inch barrel and is in .50 cal. They were wanting $348 for it.
Here is the number if you want it. I believe they can mail it to ya. If they cant show you a picture let me know and I will take a picture of it.

Cabelas
2300 Promenade Boulevard
Rogers, AR 72758
Phone: (479) 616-1925

I really appreciate the gesture Bobby. I saw the same gun at my local Cabelas. I held off on it due to the fact I want a .54 for my first one. Not looking to get into a keyboard match with anyone on cal's just my personal preference up to this point.

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I need to read post better so I will know all the information when I re-post, lol.

Good luck, please post pictures when you get one.

 

[cowpoke1955]

This is the best price on a GPR I can find $459.99: http://www.dnrsports.com/catalog/product/f3fbf36ab8d9a6a104ca299c0fd8d04b . That's only $20.99 more than the Dixie Hawkens: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_191&products_id=3461 . I would consider the Trade Rifle second only to the GPR: http://www.dnrsports.com/catalog/product/73af8ecdebeb51343535779d3ed78a08 . It really boils down to your personal choice. By the way, you picked an excallent caliber :thumbsup:

 

[splinter84]

This is the best price on a GPR I can find $459.99: http://www.dnrsports.com/catalog/product/f3fbf36ab8d9a6a104ca299c0fd8d04b . That's only $20.99 more than the Dixie Hawkens: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_191&products_id=3461 . I would consider the Trade Rifle second only to the GPR: http://www.dnrsports.com/catalog/product/73af8ecdebeb51343535779d3ed78a08 . It really boils down to your personal choice. By the way, you picked an excallent caliber :thumbsup:

I think I will go with the GPR through DNR Sports. That is $20 less than what I was finding at Midsouth, and only $80 more than the Trade rifle. I am going to give them a call on Saturday or Monday to see if they have any in stock and how long it would take to ship. I am not a small guy by any means (6' 1" 210+) so lugging around a little extra weight compared to the Trade or Dixie is OK with me for now. I hauled my neighbors 9 lbs CVA Hawken 50 cal for an 8 hour day with an hour break this fall. It wasn't too bad.

I'm pretty excited guys! :grin: I researched options online every chance I had for the past week. Not that I had that many in my price range. Been gathering plenty of info on ML'ing for a month now. I looked at a few models at my local Cabelas etc. For under $500 it didn't take long to find the well known models online in this price range.

Now for the hard part.....figuring out RB/patch sizes, powder type, etc. This should be interesting.

I better check my temperature....I feel the fever coming! :haha: