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Can't help you there, but there's many things that scream not Lyman to me. The tang is much longer and not straight. The wedges are captured. The trigger-guard is different along with other things.
I'm sure those with more knowledge than me will speak up soon.
I'm sure those with more knowledge than me will speak up soon.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
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- Jan 9, 2006
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- 89
The long tang is similar to those sold for after-market built Hawken rifles. The Proof Marks are Italian( PN) with the AL indicating the barrel was proofed in 1983. The third symbol indicates the location of the proof house at Gardone.
I just checked the Proof marks by going to the "MEMBER RESOURCES" box at the top of the index page for this forum, then clicking on Charts a couple of times, to find ProoF marks on modern replicas. You might want to take a look yourself just to be sure.
The last photo is over-exposed, and I can't read the 4 letters or the numbers? to the right of it when facing the picture. LYman Mountain Rifles have come with steel forend caps, so this gun was made from aftermarket parts. That doesn't look like a Lyman, or Italian stock, either, but that is difficult to say from pictures. Could that lock have come from " Long " lock company? The plate looks similar to one I have.
I am not fond of black stocks, or those hooked butt plates, but to each his own. It appears to be a well made rifle, and you should enjoy it for years to come. If it were mine, I would refinish the stock to bring out its grain, and change that butt plate. Someone apparently was trying to make a replica Hawken rifle, I believe, and did a fair job of it. Let us know how it shoots.
I just checked the Proof marks by going to the "MEMBER RESOURCES" box at the top of the index page for this forum, then clicking on Charts a couple of times, to find ProoF marks on modern replicas. You might want to take a look yourself just to be sure.
The last photo is over-exposed, and I can't read the 4 letters or the numbers? to the right of it when facing the picture. LYman Mountain Rifles have come with steel forend caps, so this gun was made from aftermarket parts. That doesn't look like a Lyman, or Italian stock, either, but that is difficult to say from pictures. Could that lock have come from " Long " lock company? The plate looks similar to one I have.
I am not fond of black stocks, or those hooked butt plates, but to each his own. It appears to be a well made rifle, and you should enjoy it for years to come. If it were mine, I would refinish the stock to bring out its grain, and change that butt plate. Someone apparently was trying to make a replica Hawken rifle, I believe, and did a fair job of it. Let us know how it shoots.
cowpoke1955
58 Cal.
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- Oct 23, 2006
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Din't know Lyman made a Mountain Rifle 
I agree with R.M. Nothing about that rifle is close to a GPR. Not a bad looking rifle though :thumbsup:
I agree with R.M. Nothing about that rifle is close to a GPR. Not a bad looking rifle though :thumbsup:
It reminds me of a rifle that was made using a Italian barrel but it doesn't look like the Italian reproductions I've seen.
As for shooting the load that's in the gun I would not suggest doing that.
I bought a used muzzleloading rifle that was loaded.
When I got home I removed the nipples drum and found that the powder some idiot had loaded under the ball was Smokeless rifle powder.
Firing that load could have killed me.
If anyone wants to use a grease fitting in the nipple hole to allow the use of a grease gun to remove a stuck load they need to remember that the threads on those grease fittings are "close" but usually different than the nipple threads.
They can be safely used if they are screwed into the nipple hole using your fingers only.
As long as no wrench or pliers are used to tighten them they will not damage the nipple holes threads.
On the other hand, if they are fully tightened using a wrench or pliers they will destroy the threads in the barrel.
As for shooting the load that's in the gun I would not suggest doing that.
I bought a used muzzleloading rifle that was loaded.
When I got home I removed the nipples drum and found that the powder some idiot had loaded under the ball was Smokeless rifle powder.
Firing that load could have killed me.
If anyone wants to use a grease fitting in the nipple hole to allow the use of a grease gun to remove a stuck load they need to remember that the threads on those grease fittings are "close" but usually different than the nipple threads.
They can be safely used if they are screwed into the nipple hole using your fingers only.
As long as no wrench or pliers are used to tighten them they will not damage the nipple holes threads.
On the other hand, if they are fully tightened using a wrench or pliers they will destroy the threads in the barrel.
Great information guys.
The blury picture is of the serial # 50xx
The length od pull is long @ 14.7/8"
Still can't find a grease zerk to fit it but will order a few sizes in so I hope I can find the right size. I tried the compressed air at 120 psi but no luck. right now it is soaking in wd40 and Sunday I will try and pull the ball again.
How hard would it be to remove the breach plug to get that load out??? Maybe this would be a faster way to remove the load or Is that something that should never be done?
The blury picture is of the serial # 50xx
The length od pull is long @ 14.7/8"
Still can't find a grease zerk to fit it but will order a few sizes in so I hope I can find the right size. I tried the compressed air at 120 psi but no luck. right now it is soaking in wd40 and Sunday I will try and pull the ball again.
How hard would it be to remove the breach plug to get that load out??? Maybe this would be a faster way to remove the load or Is that something that should never be done?
How hard would it be to remove the breach plug to get that load out???
-------
Bad idea.
Removing the breech plug in a traditional muzzleloader often damages the barrel and or the plug.
They are installed VERY tight and are often very difficult to get a good grip on them.
Generally speaking, removing the breech plug is a last resort and should only be attempted by a gunsmith who has the proper tools for the job.
-------
Bad idea.
Removing the breech plug in a traditional muzzleloader often damages the barrel and or the plug.
They are installed VERY tight and are often very difficult to get a good grip on them.
Generally speaking, removing the breech plug is a last resort and should only be attempted by a gunsmith who has the proper tools for the job.
You can take the nipple to a good hardware store and they can tell you what size the treads are so you can get the right grease fitting to use.....and i like the others say use grease to get the ball out......of course you can call a good gunsmith and tell them what you got and they can remove the breech plug and remove the ball also.
Also meant to say that you can take a nipple the same size that has good treads and solder a piece of steel tubeing to it and solder a grease fitting to the other end and then you can pump the grease in and have a tool when you get through and be ready for the next stuck ball....just my .02 cents worth
longcruise
70 Cal.
Good idea! Another possible would be to rethread an oversize zirk.
If the efforts to pull the ball have resulted in a hole all the way through the ball, then neither air nor grease is going to push it out.
tiger955
Pouring water into the powder charge would prevent it from firing but on the other hand if the ball couldn't be removed immediately, the wet powder would be left sitting there.
Although wet black powder isn't very corrosive that would be a good way to start some serious rusting in the breech.
Black powder needs a spark or some very serious heat to ignite. Static electricity, pounding on it etc will not cause it to light.
That said, I wouldn't recommend wetting the powder.
Pouring water into the powder charge would prevent it from firing but on the other hand if the ball couldn't be removed immediately, the wet powder would be left sitting there.
Although wet black powder isn't very corrosive that would be a good way to start some serious rusting in the breech.
Black powder needs a spark or some very serious heat to ignite. Static electricity, pounding on it etc will not cause it to light.
That said, I wouldn't recommend wetting the powder.
Last ditch, stubborn stuck ball with a hole through it, or one that a common threaded puller has stripped out.
Get a length of all thread or what they call ready-rod in 1/4",
Get a connector nut, two common nuts, a large flat washer and a thing called a "hanger bolt",
A Hanger bolt has common thread on one side,,lag bolt or wood thread on the other.
Assemble the Hanger bolt, connector nut and ready-rod and slide it down to contact the ball. Put the two common nuts on the rod together and tighten them onto each other,,then with a proper size box end or socket and ratchet, turn the Hanger bolt into the ball.
Remove the two common bolts and slide a flat washer down the rod so it sits flat on the muzzle.
Thread one common nut on the rod and all the way down to the washer,,,Now,,useing a wrench,,slowly turn the nut clockwise down the thread,,if the rod and hanger bolt turn, it is at least trying to thread it's way deeper into the ball,,the rod will/should start the ball moving up and out the bore.
If it strips,,pull it out,,clean the threads and try again.
Biggest trouble is sometimes the connector nut's outside diameter is too big and needs to be ground or filed to fit.
Get a length of all thread or what they call ready-rod in 1/4",
Get a connector nut, two common nuts, a large flat washer and a thing called a "hanger bolt",
A Hanger bolt has common thread on one side,,lag bolt or wood thread on the other.
Assemble the Hanger bolt, connector nut and ready-rod and slide it down to contact the ball. Put the two common nuts on the rod together and tighten them onto each other,,then with a proper size box end or socket and ratchet, turn the Hanger bolt into the ball.
Remove the two common bolts and slide a flat washer down the rod so it sits flat on the muzzle.
Thread one common nut on the rod and all the way down to the washer,,,Now,,useing a wrench,,slowly turn the nut clockwise down the thread,,if the rod and hanger bolt turn, it is at least trying to thread it's way deeper into the ball,,the rod will/should start the ball moving up and out the bore.
If it strips,,pull it out,,clean the threads and try again.
Biggest trouble is sometimes the connector nut's outside diameter is too big and needs to be ground or filed to fit.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Great idea! Hope I can remember it when needed. :redface:
"Last ditch, stubborn stuck ball with a hole through it, or one that a common threaded puller has stripped out.
Get a length of all thread or what they call ready-rod in 1/4",
Get a connector nut, two common nuts, a large flat washer and a thing called a "hanger bolt",
A Hanger bolt has common thread on one side,,lag bolt or wood thread on the other.
Assemble the Hanger bolt, connector nut and ready-rod and slide it down to contact the ball. Put the two common nuts on the rod together and tighten them onto each other,,then with a proper size box end or socket and ratchet, turn the Hanger bolt into the ball.
Remove the two common bolts and slide a flat washer down the rod so it sits flat on the muzzle.
Thread one common nut on the rod and all the way down to the washer,,,Now,,useing a wrench,,slowly turn the nut clockwise down the thread,,if the rod and hanger bolt turn, it is at least trying to thread it's way deeper into the ball,,the rod will/should start the ball moving up and out the bore.
If it strips,,pull it out,,clean the threads and try again.
Biggest trouble is sometimes the connector nut's outside diameter is too big and needs to be ground or filed to fit."
OK anyone have a picture of this set up or maybe a drawing of it?
I found out that the nipple size is 6mm .75 (I even had one in a hawkin kit that is is the box) and I also bought 2 more at Cabelas today and will solder piece of pipe to one along with a zerk, then will see if I can get this bullet out.
Can't wait to shoot this rifle, its a heavy girl and should shoot good if I can get the barrel cleaned up good enough.
Thanks to all for the tips on removal, will let you know how it turns out soon.
Get a length of all thread or what they call ready-rod in 1/4",
Get a connector nut, two common nuts, a large flat washer and a thing called a "hanger bolt",
A Hanger bolt has common thread on one side,,lag bolt or wood thread on the other.
Assemble the Hanger bolt, connector nut and ready-rod and slide it down to contact the ball. Put the two common nuts on the rod together and tighten them onto each other,,then with a proper size box end or socket and ratchet, turn the Hanger bolt into the ball.
Remove the two common bolts and slide a flat washer down the rod so it sits flat on the muzzle.
Thread one common nut on the rod and all the way down to the washer,,,Now,,useing a wrench,,slowly turn the nut clockwise down the thread,,if the rod and hanger bolt turn, it is at least trying to thread it's way deeper into the ball,,the rod will/should start the ball moving up and out the bore.
If it strips,,pull it out,,clean the threads and try again.
Biggest trouble is sometimes the connector nut's outside diameter is too big and needs to be ground or filed to fit."
OK anyone have a picture of this set up or maybe a drawing of it?
I found out that the nipple size is 6mm .75 (I even had one in a hawkin kit that is is the box) and I also bought 2 more at Cabelas today and will solder piece of pipe to one along with a zerk, then will see if I can get this bullet out.
Can't wait to shoot this rifle, its a heavy girl and should shoot good if I can get the barrel cleaned up good enough.
Thanks to all for the tips on removal, will let you know how it turns out soon.
UPDATE:
I took the rifle to a muzzleloader builder near me and he took the breach off which the threads looked like new, then he popped the round ball out.
The barrel looked pretty rough inside but with some hot soapy water it actually cleaned up really good from the muzzle to about the last 6" at the breach and then it shows some pitting.
I think that with a bunch of cleaning it should be fine and I am hoping that it will shoot well.
So Sunday it will be clean the barrel day...OK after the Vikings game
I took the rifle to a muzzleloader builder near me and he took the breach off which the threads looked like new, then he popped the round ball out.
The barrel looked pretty rough inside but with some hot soapy water it actually cleaned up really good from the muzzle to about the last 6" at the breach and then it shows some pitting.
I think that with a bunch of cleaning it should be fine and I am hoping that it will shoot well.
So Sunday it will be clean the barrel day...OK after the Vikings game
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