need help with identifying a musket

[TMC74]

Hello,

First post...if anyone knows the make or age of this musket that would be great.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9661/p1000111q.jpg
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5226/p1000112o.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9662/p1000113pd.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9175/p1000114q.jpg
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7468/p1000115i.jpg
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2526/p1000116n.jpg
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4665/p1000117f.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2284/p1000118k.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5349/p1000119wb.jpg

 

[Jim Blair]

The lock is an incorrect replacement not original to the musket.It is a U.S.Model 1816 musket.The way the sling swivel is mounted to a stud in front of the trigger guard indicates it was manufactured between 1819-1822.Are there proof marks on the barrel?This model was manufactured at both Springfield and Harpers Ferry as well as by several contractors.

 

[Jim Blair]

Here's a view of what a correct pattern of lock would look like-
http://collectorebooks.com/gregg01/usantique/DSC00412.jpg

 

[TMC74]

Thanks for the help!

I didn't find any markings on the barrel or stock.
Just the US on the top of the buttplate.

Did Springfield "mark" all of the barrels they made?

 

[Jim Blair]

A barrel produced by the armories or by a civilian contractor will have proof marks indicating they have been proofed.Generally at the breech end consisting of an eagle head with a P or V and sometimes with the inspectors initials.

Lack of proofs could also indicate a musket assembled from surplus or condemned parts.Outside of the incorrect lock it looks substantially correct.The name on the lock,Thos.Cordis,was listed as a hardware dealer in Boston circa 1790-1830,the lock is most likely of English manufacture and retailed by Cordis to the gun trade.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Scots Jim is essentially correct; it is a civilian version of the US M1816 smoothbored musket (probably) made of surplus barrel and hardware with a civilian lock and maybe civilian produced stock for sale and use by state militiaman who, if financially able, were required to provide their own weapon for service. It is one of the almost infinite variations of what collectors call the "New England Militia Musket".


The stock was never cut for the correct M1816 lock. The barrel was likely made by a Federal contractor who produced large numbers of barrels for Federal contract and this one was one of his over-runs that was not needed so the contractor didn't pay to have it proofed. Federal inspectors/proof masters were sent around to the establishments of barrel contractors to proof the barrels produced and accept them as serviceable. This, of course, cost the contractor so when his contract requirements were filled he would not submit any excess barrels for proof and then dispose of them in any way that he saw fit - very often to the civilian market whether a gunsmith or another barrel maker who may have found himself short in required stock for proof at the new owner's expense.

The Boston location and the dates of the lock indicated by Scots Jim back up my supposition of a military musket produced by and for the civilian market.

 

[Jim Blair]

Can you measure the bore diameter?

 

[TMC74]

The auction listed it as .72 caliber.

I'll see if I can measure the bore tonight.

Thanks everyone for all the info it's much appreciated.

 

[Jim Blair]

U.S muskets would be .69 caliber.Va. is on point with the produced by and for the civilian market.I would not be surprised if you removed the barrel to find English or possibly Belgian proof marks if any proofs are even present.Given the caliber and lack of normal proof marks it was certainly not a U.S. issue weapon but was built in the style of one.

 

[TMC74]

I measured it with a digital caliper it is .69 caliber. The auction had it wrong.

 

[Jim Blair]

Here's a discussion on a very similar musket with a Cordis lock that has been converted to percussion-
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/12531/London-Lock-Maker?page=1#.UIBVtrRVhoR

Look at post #15,that is what the proof marks look like on an armory or contract proofed barrel if not obscured by years of rust and dirt.

 

[vtbuck223]

Very nice New England Militia musket. Possibly in original flint? Can't tell for sure if it has been reconverted but doesn't appear to be the case. The above referenced Thos. Cordis musket is mine...and it as well as all of my NE Militia muskets are among my favorites. Have you pulled the barrel off to look for marks? Also,I would be really curious as to how much you paid at auction...but understand if you don't want to share.

 

[TMC74]

Thanks...it has no proof marks anywhere that I see.

I'm not going to take it apart as I don't want to break anything.

Glad it's .69 cal we can atleast assume it was made from US parts in New England.

 

[vtbuck223]

I would also encourage you to look very closely at the barrel...sometimes the armory proof marks were removed...I have one Mass Militia musket in which this is the case...it is surprisingly hard to see...