Need help with identifying this rifle

[Sam squanch]

These were not marked at all. The makers wanted them to look old to deceive a buyer.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

When I was in the Middle East, they were all over the Bazars. $30 to $50 USD. Of course, the A-rabs are on the barter system. Thousands were sent home as souvenirs. DO NOT try to shoot it. The barrel is most likely a reshaped water pipe. Semper Fi.

 

[rickystl]

I agree with Sam and his Posts above. I believe this is one of the earlier tourist guns from the Eastern markets. Probably 1950's/60's or earlier. The barrel looks like an original, discarded Ottoman style barrel that was cut down and a front sight added. The decoration on the old barrel added later when the gun was made. Note the side plate screws and the trigger itself appear to be brass. A no-no even with original Ottoman pistols. Notice the grip being too short in length for the barrel length. Most of all, notice the crudeness in the lock. Especially the frizzen. frizzen spring, and the pan. Of course, the assembler/builder did not likely have the skill set of a genuine gun builder. Basically, the gun was assembled using a combination of old and new parts from what ever was available at the moment. And then/, decorated. The gun was never meant to shoot.
As a tourist/display only item, it is a much better example that the ones from the 1970's or latter. I could fetch maybe $200.00 at auction. Unless it's a gun dealer purchasing something to add to his table at a show, there are only a small minority of those interested in Ottoman style guns. But those few, usually and acutely know what they are looking at and know the difference. Hope this helps.

Rick

 

[LME]

View attachment 266871

 

[LME]

Anyone

It is an Arab gun !

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I agree with Sam and his Posts above. I believe this is one of the earlier tourist guns from the Eastern markets. Probably 1950's/60's or earlier. The barrel looks like an original, discarded Ottoman style barrel that was cut down and a front sight added. The decoration on the old barrel added later when the gun was made. Note the side plate screws and the trigger itself appear to be brass. A no-no even with original Ottoman pistols. Notice the grip being too short in length for the barrel length. Most of all, notice the crudeness in the lock. Especially the frizzen. frizzen spring, and the pan. Of course, the assembler/builder did not likely have the skill set of a genuine gun builder. Basically, the gun was assembled using a combination of old and new parts from what ever was available at the moment. And then/, decorated. The gun was never meant to shoot.
As a tourist/display only item, it is a much better example that the ones from the 1970's or latter. I could fetch maybe $200.00 at auction. Unless it's a gun dealer purchasing something to add to his table at a show, there are only a small minority of those interested in Ottoman style guns. But those few, usually and acutely know what they are looking at and know the difference. Hope this helps.

Rick

Surprisingly, prices have been skyrocketing on this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if it brought $1200 these days at RIACo.

 

[rickystl]

Surprisingly, prices have been skyrocketing on this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if it brought $1200 these days at RIACo.

Yes, even with inflation, stuff lately has been selling for more than I would have guessed.

Rick

 

[sportster73hp]

I purchased at auction one that was said to be Ottoman empire . Showing up too late to actually check it out I bid on it anyway. It looks cool. Not a shooter! When i got home i investigated closer . Barrel had a weld seam on the inside and sear spring replaced with a welded block.
It is on display and a learning experience.

 

[Kurt24]

This is a very interesting sample of an early flint gun.
I have never seen a gun of this type that we would call high art. Even the best of those products of that area were lacking in fine finish.
The one thing that stands out to me to say it is quite old is the wood shrinkage which is considerable. If you note it has pushed out a lot of
the inlays which I assume are of bone.
The engraving is one level above most of what I have seen on this type.
The inlays are two levels or more above what I have seen on this type.
The inletting on the side plate and the thumb piece is lacking in precision, which is not unusual.
In my mind what you have here is the real deal, what the tourist trade guns are trying to duplicate.
Barry

Some of the inlays have started to come out a lil bit but its not bone i believe its silver and brass i think idk . But ok so once i take it apart what am i looking for?

 

[Kurt24]

You really need to take the lock off, if possible, for a good ID…. Many of these were made SO long ago for sale, starting in the 1920’s thereabouts, they really look the part ….I think the barrel is old, but the lock is not.

What am i looking for once i take the lock apart

 

[Sam squanch]

Just show a picture of it here.

 

[Kurt24]

Just show a picture of it here.

 

[Kurt24]

This is a very interesting sample of an early flint gun.
I have never seen a gun of this type that we would call high art. Even the best of those products of that area were lacking in fine finish.
The one thing that stands out to me to say it is quite old is the wood shrinkage which is considerable. If you note it has pushed out a lot of
the inlays which I assume are of bone.
The engraving is one level above most of what I have seen on this type.
The inlays are two levels or more above what I have seen on this type.
The inletting on the side plate and the thumb piece is lacking in precision, which is not unusual.
In my mind what you have here is the real deal, what the tourist trade guns are trying to duplicate.
Barry

Check out pics i want ur opinion too

 

[TFoley]

Wouldnt a tourist trade have a marking on it somewhere tho

Nope. What are you looking for? A stamp that reads 'Fake replica - do not shoot'? Not going to happen, Sir.

 

[Sam squanch]

Sorry- you can see by the inside of the lock it’s not meant to be functional. No mainspring! And no corresponding inlet for the mainspring in the stock.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Sorry- you can see by the inside of the lock it’s not meant to be functional. No mainspring! And no corresponding inlet for the mainspring in the stock.

I can plainly see the mainspring....it's the big V shaped piece of metal above the lock in the picture. The sear spring is interesting. Nothing but a little coil spring. I'd say this gun was made post 1950.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

The coil spring tells the tale.

 

[Sam squanch]

I see it now! Early morning and no coffee! That’s one stout spring.

 

[Sam squanch]

I’ve seen better work on India made muskets……

 

[Kurt24]

Sorry- you can see by the inside of the lock it’s not meant to be functional. No mainspring! And no corresponding inlet for the mainspring in the stock.

What do you mean it looks like its all there to me