Need Help With Thompson Center Hawken Flintlock

[broome1000]

I have an old Thompson Center Hawken that I have had for decades. I was hoping to find out any info about age, model etc... The gun measures 42" long and has a 27" barrel. It has no markings except TC on the butt plate. I meaured the bore at 12.7mm so I assume it is 50 cal. Any help is appreciated as I may be posting this one in the classifieds.
Thanks

 

[Greg Blackburn]

One thing I can tell you, it's not a Hawken. that's a Renegade.....or the pattern that would later be named "Renegade."

What is the serial number? I assume it's a very early model.

 

[broome1000]

I can't find any other marking than the TC. any hints where I can find it other than disassembling the gun?

One thing I can tell you, it's not a Hawken. that's a Renegade.....or the pattern that would later be named "Renegade."

What is the serial number? I assume it's a very early model.

 

[Dave Marsh]

This is normally on the right side of the barrel just behind the rear sight in plain site so you don't need to remove the barrel although it is simple to do. If you do not have those marking you may want to take the barrel out and look for marking. That is definitely a Renegade and not a Hawken. Very interesting and please keep us posted as to what you find.

 

[Zonie]

Is the barrel stamped with the words, "Thompson Center" on it? This is always stamped on one of the barrels upper flats.

 

[broome1000]

The barrel is un-stamped.

Is the barrel stamped with the words, "Thompson Center" on it? This is always stamped on one of the barrels upper flats.

 

[kje54]

Is the barrel stamped with the words, "Thompson Center" on it? This is always stamped on one of the barrels upper flats.

The upper three flats could have been draw filed at one time to remove the stamps.

 

[Zonie]

The upper three flats could have been draw filed at one time to remove the stamps.

Or the barrel might have been replaced.
I noticed broome1000 said it has a 27" barrel. According to my information, the TC Renegade had a 26" long barrel. ("Dixie Gun Works" 1987, "Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values").

 

[kje54]

Or the barrel might have been replaced.
I noticed broome1000 said it has a 27" barrel. According to my information, the TC Renegade had a 26" long barrel. ("Dixie Gun Works" 1987, "Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values").

I missed that, your guess sounds better than mine.

 

[SDSmlf]

Or the barrel might have been replaced.
I noticed broome1000 said it has a 27" barrel. According to my information, the TC Renegade had a 26" long barrel. ("Dixie Gun Works" 1987, "Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values").

Add an inch for the breech plug and the exterior of a 26” Renegade barrel measures 27”.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Assuming the barrel is not a replacement, it might be a pre-Renegade-marked barrel. Could one has slipped out unmarked?

Serial number would help. If you don't want to give the full one, just give the first couple of numbers and "X" the last digits.

 

[broome1000]

I wouldn't mind giving it out but I cannot find a serial number anywhere on the gun.

Assuming the barrel is not a replacement, it might be a pre-Renegade-marked barrel. Could one has slipped out unmarked?

Serial number would help. If you don't want to give the full one, just give the first couple of numbers and "X" the last digits.

 

[SDSmlf]

I wouldn't mind giving it out but I cannot find a serial number anywhere on the gun.

Have you removed the barrel and checked the bottom flat for any markings? There may also be a ‘K’ in the barrel channel indicating it started life as a kit.

 

[Zonie]

I wouldn't mind giving it out but I cannot find a serial number anywhere on the gun.

That's another good indicator that the barrel was replaced. TC always marks a serial number on their barrels, even on kit guns.

I'm wondering, what is the rate of twist in the bore?
If you have a long cleaning rod, a cleaning jag, some masking tape, a pen to mark with, a yard stick or tape measure and a cloth patch you can find out the rate of twist pretty easily.

Assemble the jag and cleaning rod. Put the patch over the muzzle and ram it to the bottom of the bore. Wrap a piece of masking tape around the rod so it's lower edge is flush with the end of the barrel. Now, make a mark on the tape that is in line with the front sight.
Carefully pull the cleaning rod/jag/patch back out of the bore letting it turn freely as the rifling rotates it.
When the mark on the tape is directly opposite from the front sight indicating the rod has made 1/2 turn, stop.
Now, measure the distance from the end of the barrel to the lower side of the masking tape.
The rate of twist will be twice the distance that you measure. As an example, if the rod moved 24 inches to rotate the mark on the tape 1/2 of a full rotation, the twist rate is 24 X 2 = 48, so it has a 1:48 twist.

I ask this question because the TC Renegade came with a 1:48 twist. If this barrel has a different twist, that is one more indication that the barrel has been changed.

 

[broome1000]

I have removed the barrel. Nothing. I have 2 other percussion rifles which all came from the same estate auction. Both are exactly the same with no numbering or serial numbers. Is it possible they are from another company?

Have you removed the barrel and checked the bottom flat for any markings? There may also be a ‘K’ in the barrel channel indicating it started life as a kit.

 

[SDSmlf]

I have removed the barrel. Nothing. I have 2 other percussion rifles which all came from the same estate auction. Both are exactly the same with no numbering or serial numbers. Is it possible they are from another company?

Three guns from the same estate with no marking on the barrels? Big clue, at least to me. The previous owner defarbed their guns. Do as Zonie suggested above and figure out the twist rate. Likely 1-48 and a TC 26” Renegade barrel. Personally, I defarb some barrels, particularly if I have it rebored. I then stamp the rebore info on the bottom barrel flat for my own information.

 

[Zonie]

The patch box is not a Thompson Center type. They look like the Investarms patchboxes that I think were sold by Lyman.

The thing is, if they are Investarms guns they would have the Italian Proof marks on the barrels unless someone removed them or as I said, the barrels have been replaced.

 

[broome1000]

Thanks for all of the help and advice. I will give it a try tomorrow and report back.

Three guns from the same estate with no marking on the barrels? Big clue, at least to me. The previous owner defarbed their guns. Do as Zonie suggested above and figure out the twist rate. Likely 1-48 and a TC 26” Renegade barrel. Personally, I defarb some barrels, particularly if I have it rebored. I then stamp the rebore info on the bottom barrel flat for my own information.

 

[SDSmlf]

The patch box is not a Thompson Center type. They look like the Investarms patchboxes that I think were sold by Lyman.

The thing is, if they are Investarms guns they would have the Italian Proof marks on the barrels unless someone removed them or as I said, the barrels have been replaced.

The gun in the OP had no patch box, and has a TC but plate. Almost certain it a Renegade with an at the moment, an unknown barrel. The top gun in the second photo set appears to be a Lyman Hawken Plains Rifle, and the gun below it looks to be Hopkins and Allen, probably their Hawken.

 

[SDSmlf]

And just as a FYI, here is a photograph of a TC barrel I defarbed after it was rebored. I stamped the pertinent information (at least to me) on the bottom flat, so when the gun goes down the road one day, or I forget what was done, there is little question about the barrel. This barrel was converted from percussion to flint, so I omitted the serial number, believing it would only send someone on an endless chase