Need ideas for knife blank.

[Black Hand]

Makes it very suspicious there then. {sarcasm/off}

You are typically a man of few words, but sometimes the words you do supply are so vague that your meaning is utterly lost. I suspect you were trying to make a point, but I haven't the slightest idea what it might be....

 

[Artificer]

Where are y'all seeing knives with bone scales?

The link I provided above has one example.

"The Papers of Henry Laurens contain another box handled knife reference specific to Butcher knives:

"3 doz. & 10 Clasp knives, 3 doz. box handles Butcher knives, 3 1/2 doz. Split bone handle do...6 doz Buck Spring Knives, 4 doz & a Small do. 2 doz. buck handle Knives, 2 Blades, 5 dozen Inlaid Small Knives, 2 Doz & 3 Black handle ditto, 13 Ivory Handle pen knives[p378] 1 doz. Large Buffler knives..."

Gus

I saw that. I was hoping for something a little bit more definitive as to construction. While bone is a bear to work with, I love the finished product and would dearly like to make a bone handled knife if I could find an original example that I could reproduce with the tools and material available to me.

Sorry, can't help you much on construction. I used to have a few links to discarded pieces of bone in the button trade, but they no longer work. The only one that still works is this one: http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2009/09/more-on-bone-buttons.html

What these discarded pieces and others that still come to light on the banks of the Thames at times, tell me is they fully knew how to work bone - either while raw or possibly boiled so they would be "plastic" enough to be cut into buttons and other objects and that also includes using soft Iron "pinning wire" as they called it, to make the pins. http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2009/09/more-on-bone-buttons.html

Gus

 

[Black Hand]

Diderot's plate of Buttonmaker tools. The cutters look like modified spade bits that cut from flattened pieces of bone leaving what is seen in the image Gus linked above.

 

[NorthFork]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sYlcQcV3t...fVA/s1600/wrackhhwittenbergenmess+17th+c..jpg

The blade in the right hand column, second from bottom. It has 3 pin holes in the tang that are in the horizontal plane. At the end of the tang, does it have 2 holes that are vertical?

 

[Artificer]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sYlcQcV3thk/USh5gnGC4pI/AAAAAAAALG0/EYwNQuaLfVA/s1600/wrackhhwittenbergenmess+17th+c..jpg

The blade in the right hand column, second from bottom. It has 3 pin holes in the tang that are in the horizontal plane. At the end of the tang, does it have 2 holes that are vertical?

I honestly don't know. It could be, though it might be the bent up ends of the tang or even pins that are helping to keep the tang in the correct position to photograph the blade. IOW, I would make no strict determinations without being able to examine the blades much more closely.

Gus

 

[LRB]

English knives are found with both tapered and full thickness tangs. Commonly, 2 1/8" pins for French, 3 pins for English, from 1/16" to 3/32" in diameter. There are variations for both types, but the pin count was pretty standard in half tang knives. Some claim the full thickness English tangs are those that were iron, forge welded to high carbon blades, and thus left full to resist bending. It also seems that at least some of the French "boucherons", although tapered half tanged, had two piece slab grips, with a third pin at the rear of the slabs to tie them snugly together.

 

[LRB]

Yes, there were also full length tangs. Probably more of a table knife, and likely cost more. Bone makes great grips but don't drop it on a rock, and use moderation in fitting and peening the pins. With both English and French scalpers, beechwood seems the most common, with boxwood and reddish exotics also being used.

 

[LRB]

Those may be holes. Very hard to say. If so, almost positively 19th c. I could be wrong, but all of those look later than 18th c.

 

[LRB]

I agree Elnathan. I've never seen a documented Riflesmans knife. Many makers offer them, as I do also, but they are really fantasy knives for the most part. Coulda beens, but lack of evidence to justify. Also, you do not see cross guards on single edged 18th c. knives, unless they are modified broken swords. Cross guards are only common on daggers. If you find a single edged 18th c. knife with any guard, it is a rarity.

 

[NorthFork]

I know where I can obtain walnut, osage, maple, bone, red oak, mahogany, various pines/spruces, poplar, red cedar, split and whole antler, and ebony. Where can one buy beech or boxwood?

 

[LRB]

https://www.woodcraft.com/ is one source, and they usually have beechwood, but google up knife makers supplies for small orders of exotics. I use Sheffield Knifemakers Supply most often, but there are many others. Try here for boxwhttp://www.dlumberyard.com/Shopping%20Cart/Out/index1.html?c13.html&1ood.

 

[NorthFork]

Thanks!

 

[Artificer]

In addition to the great info Wick supplied on beechwood, you may be able to find it in local lumberyards or stores that supply wood for cabinet makers.

I have also "harvested" knife blank beechwood from worn out/cracked "Danish" Beechwood Garand Stocks.

Gus

 

[NorthFork]

I've located a source for Euro beech at an attractive price. Woodworkers Source is the outfit. English boxwood is eluding me. Obviously if I choose to take the easy way out and use the full tang, all I need to do is fit simple shaped slab handles and pins to the tang. But if I choose to go with a partial tang I will need to slot the block of wood. How do you all slot the handle for a tapered tang???

 

[Black Hand]

How do you all slot the handle for a tapered tang???

I cut a slot to the desired depth (accommodating tang length) then clamp the end to close the slot and run the saw down the original cut line to meet the existing cut. This generates a slot that is tapered. I repeat as often as needed to achieve the desired length (and width) of the taper.

 

[Artificer]

Very good tip!! :hatsoff:

Gus

 

[Black Hand]

I scratched my head for a while when I was making a couple of tapered half-tang knives from blades I'd forged and this seemed the easiest approach to me. It turns out to work quite well - if the first cut is in line, subsequent cuts enlarge the slot (relatively) evenly to each side. The slot can be cleaned with a flat needle file to remove high spots, but if the saw teeth are small, there should be little need. Also, the cutler's resin (beeswax, pitch & finely-ground charcoal) I make fills any gaps well.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I've never seen a documented Riflesmans knife.

I don't want to debate this issue again with you. I have but, you, and others, do not like the references I have used.
As for boxwood, it is near impossible to find these days. A good substitute (get the hangman's noose ready :shocked2: ) would be holly that is stabilized. But, just don't tell anyone it is stabilized and it will look pefectly hc/pc and be very pretty.
BTW, those short tangs may be "authentic". But, as a matter of safety, I wouldn't want one. A long/full tang is much stronger and won't break out of the scales with hard use. :2

 

[Black Hand]

I've never seen a documented Riflesmans knife.

I don't want to debate this issue again with you. I have but, you, and others, do not like the references I have used.

The source of the information needs to be considered. If you are referring to a Madison Grant book - the dates were known to be rather loose (+/- 50-100 years makes a big difference)....

 

[Artificer]

Also, the cutler's resin (beeswax, pitch & finely-ground charcoal) I make fills any gaps well.

I have never actually used Period Cutler's Resin for two reasons. I have always wondered if it would "leak" in hot weather and also would it trap bacteria or other things from blood and guts that even with proper washing could contaminate food. I honestly don't know if either of these things would happen?

So instead of the pitch, I sheepishly admit I use epoxy in Cutler's Resin mixture instead.

Gus