Need Info about old WW Greener muzzle loader

[Wefinneys]

I'm new to this forum and muzzle loaders so please....be gentle.
My father-in-law gave me an old W.W. Greener double barrel muzzle loader that his father got while serving in Europe during WWII. After getting the barrel off I found the serial number of 5224. Does anyone have any ideas on the age or any general info on the gun. It's in good shape, just needs cleaning. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me.

 

[Rifleman1776]

hotoSmile:

 

[Wefinneys]

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to add photos directly to post but here are a couple.
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p703/wefinneys/Greenerworksrightside_zpsac3adf44.jpg
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p703/wefinneys/Greenershotgunwhole_zps6ef9ad06.jpg

 

[Flintfan69]

It does appear to be legit, but without a photo of the proof marks that are on the underside of the barrel breeches it is hard to say for sure. W.W. Greener guns were stamped with Birmingham proofmarks, and Greener's own trademark, which is an elephant. I only say this, because W.W. Greener was one of the most ripped off gunmakers that the world has known. There were countless Belgian made knockoffs, which were stamped with his name. He spent a lifetime fighting patent infringement, and down right fraud.

From just the photos you posted, it does appear to be genuine, and actually a somewhat higher grade muzzleloading gun from Greener than is usually seen in the U.S. due to the platinum blowout plugs that are present on the breech plugs.

Assuming it is a genuine Greener, you should contact W.W. Greener:
http://www.wwgreener.com/index.html

The company is still in business, and still run by a direct descendent of W. and W.W. Greener. Graham Greener is a very friendly and extremely helpful in dating, and giving information about vintage Greener guns. I contacted him via email about a percussion double I have as well, and all he requested were a few photos of the locks, proofmarks, and buttstock. Once I sent those to him he quickly replied with information about my gun. An exact date (day and month) for early muzzleloading guns is not usually possible, since I think most of those order books are no longer in existence, but he should be able to provide a year and grade for your gun.

Best of luck to you, and let us know what you find out. And most of all, take care of and enjoy your gun. It looks like it is still in fairly good condition.

 

[Wefinneys]

Thanks for the info Forrest. Actually I sent Mr. Greener photos last week. He is a super nice guy and seemed to really wanted to help. I just hope I sent him all the pictures he wants. I took pictures of everything. Again thanks. I'm looking forward to getting the information.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I would agree with Forrest that it is an English market Greener (which makes sense given that it was obtained of "there").

Greener was one of the most innovative makers in the development of numerous aspects of the shotgun (lock, stock, and barrels), if not the most, over generations. That looks to be a nice gun, and obviously an historic gun (although Greener was a prolific producer).

I wouldn't jump in and start "restoring" that gun by myself.

 

[George]

I have been through the same process for a gun I own, and found Graham Greene very helpful. Here's what he said about the serial numbers:

"The earliest serial number for a W W Greener muzzle loader we have seen is 4283 equating to a date of 1862 and the highest number 17219 made in 1876 (very late for a muzzle loader but he made what customers wanted so not unusual)."

My gun's number is 10xxx for which he estimated a date of 1871-73, closer to 1871.

However, he made it clear their records are not complete, and, with few exceptions, they have no records for individual guns.

Spence

 

[Wefinneys]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm really looking forward to hearing from Mr. Greener. And GreenMT, there is no way I would even try to restore this gun. I'm a novice 100%. I heard that restoring old guns (even though this one is still in pretty good shape) could devalue them. Again thanks for the info and I'll keep you updated.

 

[Wefinneys]

I heard from Mr. Greener today about my gun. He said it was made in 1862 and was a true Greener. He said it was probably a grade 3 or 4. It didn't have much engraving work. The guns were rated from 1 to 5 with 1 being the best. He said it was not in the best shape but that it was complete and he saw a grade 4 in the same shape sell for 500 pounds ($775 US) at an auction in Britain. Super nice man and I wish him nothing but the best.

 

[Flintfan69]

Thanks for sharing, and take good care of her.

 

[Heelerau]

Forrest, you have a fine gun. By the look just give its stock a wipe over with linseed and the metal work an oily rag!! It seems in nice order, get a gunsmith to check out the bores and see the ribs are nice and secure, you may have a good shooter there. I have a W&C Scott percussion 12 bore, it mounts and shoots beautifully, have pulled down many duck and rabbits with it. The English shot gun of the 19 century had been perfected pretty well and was a long time before the newfangled cartridge guns had their balance sorted out. They pattern beautifully as well, your Father in laws Grandpa chose well.

Cheers

Heelerau

 

[tenngun]

this is so neat. I first heard of greeners in a john wayne movie. All I have ever seen were BL I didn't know he made front stuffers. Won't those be fun

 

[George]

I didn't know he made front stuffers. Won't those be fun

Yes, they are.





SxS 10 ga., 1871.

Spence

 

[Wefinneys]

Spence 10 that is exactly what mine looks like but yours looks to be in much better shape cosmetically. What grade is yours? I did oil the barrel but was afraid to oil the wood. That won't damage the value. I was told to oil the barrel and leave it alone. Linseed oil would bring out the grain. I'm new at this and don't want to ruin the gun for my grandkids one day.

 

[George]

What grade is yours? I did oil the barrel but was afraid to oil the wood. That won't damage the value. I was told to oil the barrel and leave it alone.

Graham Greener estimated mine was a grade 4 from pictures I sent him.

I'm not a gun collector, I'm a hunter, and my guns have to earn their keep, if they are able, :grin: so my approach to this gun is a bit different than some. I haven't hunted with it for quite a few years, now, but did so for a while, shot some pheasants and doves with it. I clean and oil it as I do any of my other working guns.

Spence

 

[Wefinneys]

Your gun is beautiful. I hunt but only with a regular pump shotgun. Never hunted with a muzzle loader. I'm not going to sell it, I'll keep it for my grandkids, I just want to preserve it as best as I can.