1eyemountainmen
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I am wanting to make a new knife. I need some 01 tool steel. Does anyone know were I could get a small 10 inches or so piece of steel???
Need knife steel
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1eyedmountainmen said:
Lets see, I did a Google search and found these...
Southern Tool Steel
Speedy Metals
blacksmithman64
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also check your yellow pages for steel suppliers and/or fabrication shops.
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Try this. Excellent selection, excellent pricing, excellent service
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM
However, if you do not have access to a heat treating oven, or another means of heat control, you will not get a good HT on 01. If you are backyard heat treating, you would do much better with 1080/1084, which you can get from Admiral Steel. At least the 1080, and it is much less expensive.
However, if you do not have access to a heat treating oven, or another means of heat control, you will not get a good HT on 01. If you are backyard heat treating, you would do much better with 1080/1084, which you can get from Admiral Steel. At least the 1080, and it is much less expensive.
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Bountyhunter
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I agree, Wick. For home and hobby making I recommend contacting Jantz Supply who is in cahoots with Koval now. Jantz is one of the older and larger knife supply places in the country. They have everything including tools for knifemaking and gunsmithing. They are at Davis Oklahoma, about an hour south of OKC on I-35.
You can buy one piece of steel, and I believe that after you grind your blade, you can send it back to them and they will heat treat it for a reasonable fee. Best way to go until you decide you want to invest your retirement account into a metal shop.
You can buy one piece of steel, and I believe that after you grind your blade, you can send it back to them and they will heat treat it for a reasonable fee. Best way to go until you decide you want to invest your retirement account into a metal shop.
I concur with Wick. Heat treating a knife is a pretty complicated thing with some (most) of the good steels. The simpler carbon steels tend to be a little easier to work with - like those 1080 or 1084. And using steel with other metal alloys in it just complicates it more.
Admiral Steel out of Palatine IL is a good source. They are a major steel wholesaler, but do specifically offer all varieties of knife-making steels in small quantities. Just be sure to tell them that you are a "knife maker" when you order - otherwise some of those "large industry" minimum quantities and cutting charges kick in. But they decided to offer the specialty steels to knife makers in small quantities at a better deal. I get all my flint striker steel from them.
Now, if you just want to tinker around a bit, pick up an old lawn mower blade. They are generally made from either 1084 or 5160 - generally. And old/used lawn mower blades can usually be picked up for free. Or even think about buying a new blade to start with.
Or go down to the Farm Supply store. Lots of "agricultural steel" is actually 1080 carbon steel - especially the stuff made by the Weiss Corporation. So check out their bolt-on plow shares, disc blades, and cultivator points. And near those should be some Disc Mower Knife blades. The last box I got was made by Harvest King. They are around 4 3/8 x 2 x 1/8 inches with a 7/8 inch hole near one end and two beveled cutting edges on the other. You will have to work around that hole and bevel a bit, but you get a lot of good tool steel for the price. Slitting this down the middle gives you enough metal to forge into two nice small hunting knives - about 6 inches long and 7/8 wide with a 1/2 tang. Again, probably around 1080 for actual steel content. I use them to make that one Russian fur trade style/shape flint striker that kind of looks like a cross between an ulu and an ice skate runner.
So it is all a matter of what you really want to play with, and how much experience you have in heat treating.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Admiral Steel out of Palatine IL is a good source. They are a major steel wholesaler, but do specifically offer all varieties of knife-making steels in small quantities. Just be sure to tell them that you are a "knife maker" when you order - otherwise some of those "large industry" minimum quantities and cutting charges kick in. But they decided to offer the specialty steels to knife makers in small quantities at a better deal. I get all my flint striker steel from them.
Now, if you just want to tinker around a bit, pick up an old lawn mower blade. They are generally made from either 1084 or 5160 - generally. And old/used lawn mower blades can usually be picked up for free. Or even think about buying a new blade to start with.
Or go down to the Farm Supply store. Lots of "agricultural steel" is actually 1080 carbon steel - especially the stuff made by the Weiss Corporation. So check out their bolt-on plow shares, disc blades, and cultivator points. And near those should be some Disc Mower Knife blades. The last box I got was made by Harvest King. They are around 4 3/8 x 2 x 1/8 inches with a 7/8 inch hole near one end and two beveled cutting edges on the other. You will have to work around that hole and bevel a bit, but you get a lot of good tool steel for the price. Slitting this down the middle gives you enough metal to forge into two nice small hunting knives - about 6 inches long and 7/8 wide with a 1/2 tang. Again, probably around 1080 for actual steel content. I use them to make that one Russian fur trade style/shape flint striker that kind of looks like a cross between an ulu and an ice skate runner.
So it is all a matter of what you really want to play with, and how much experience you have in heat treating.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Here's a pic (actually a scan) of those Disc Mower Knives I got from the local Farm Fleet store, and a simple little knife blade I forged up from 1/2 of one of these. Now the hard part (for me) - attaching a proper handle. That "wood working" stuff always gets me.
I'm not quite sure of the exact metal alloy in them, but the work/act like 1080.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
I'm not quite sure of the exact metal alloy in them, but the work/act like 1080.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
AHA!! So that is the reason my knife turned out to hold a nice edge! I made the knife up several years ago and when nearly done I was thinking I had wasted my time on a soft blade. Turns out when I heat treated it, the darned thing was pretty good. Thanks for the tip! I save any old mower blades I come across; must have a lifetime supply of knife blanks now. EmeryMike Ameling said:
Why don't you just get a used lawn mower blade and anneal it.After you get it annealed cut out your pattern and shape it to your design.Heat it up until a magnet doesn't stick to it and quench it in oil.Polish the blade, place sheet of steel on your turkey cooker with the polished blade laying on top and slowly bring up the heat.When the desired color of temper reaches the thin edge lift the blade off and place it on a dry brick and air cool.That should give you a good knife blade and alot more cheap material to experiment with.
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You were lucky. The lawn mower blade was probably 1084. 5160 requires a heat treat similar to 01, if you want it to be at it's best, and even at best is not great at holding an edge. Only decent. 5160 is better for large chopping blades due to it's impact resistance, whereas 1080/1084 will give you both qualities. Properly HT'ed. Mystery steels can cost more in the long run, if they fail to produce, than just buying a known steel, although there are those who don't mind wasting time and effort on a gamble. 5160 also has a nasty habit of cracking if not forged hot enough, and improperly HT'ed. MOONEDGE, I am surprised at 5160 being used for bearing races. It is not all that wear resistant. Are you sure?
Desert Rat
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Wick, Having already worked through shaping and "naturalizing" an 01 blade you have me kinda concerned about the final outcome of my blade. With a real basic primitive set up (for HTing and tempering) what kind of steps can I take to give me a decent outcome? I kinda feel I've spent to much effort at this point to not finish.
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I understand what you are saying. In your case you have but two choices. Send the blade out for HT, or just do your best at it yourself, with what you have. Chances are you will get a usuable blade with a simple HT, but it will not be at it's best, either in strength, grain structure, or edge holding. However, if you have not experienced using a blade of 01 properly HTed, you may even be impressed with your results. 01, in my experience, seems to hold a very good edge even with a simple HT, when compared to common store bought knives. I did not always have the proper equipment myself. The problem of simple HTing 01, 5160, or other steels containing chrome, vanadium, tungsten, ect. is that these alloys do not mix into an homogenous condition quickly. These steels require soaking at a controlled temp quench heat for much longer than one can do in a simple forge, and some form of decarb control also helps. 01, for example needs a soak at between 1475°, and 1500°, for 15, to 20 minutes. 5160 needs the same soak, but 10, or 15 minutes will do for it. With 01 you are also dealing with a hypereutectoid steel, meaning that it has more carbon than will go into an homogenous solution. Iron will only absorb into solution .85% carbon. The extra carbides in a hypereutectoid steel will be in clusters if not given enough time, and temp to separate, and disperse. This extra carbon needs to be evenly distibuted in order to not have soft, and hard areas in the steel. That goes also for 1095 steel. These extra carbides are what gives the steel more wear resistance, so that is another reason for them to be evenly distributed.
My first recommendation is that, if you plan to use a magnet to know when to quench, throw it far away. It will not be of use for judgeing quench heat. If you shaped using stock removal, follow this. If you forged, you will need to normalize the blade first. To normalize 01, first bring to a bright red-orange in dim light. Let cool. Then bring to a dull red. let cool. Then bring to just non-magnetic, no more than that. let cool. Yeah, I know. I said throw the magnet away. Go find it and use for this, then hide it. What you have done here is to minimize the grain size to about as small as it will go. Better strength. Now bring the blade back up to a good even red-orange, and try to hold it there as best you can, for at least a few minutes. Do not be too concerned with grain growth. The alloys in 01 greatly retard this problem. Be careful with the heat near the point. Do not allow any part of the blade to go to yellow heat! Quench in ATF, or slightly thinned motor oil, heated to 125° moving the blade fore, and aft, never sideways, as soon as it goes under. There will be a fire. Do not panic, it will go out as soon as the steels cools in the quench, but be prepared for it. Do this for maybe a minute, then remove. If you have warp, you have about 3, to five minutes to straighten with gloved hands, but beware beyond five minutes. Check hardness with a good file. If it does not skip, file it deeper to double check. With no decarb protection, you may experience decarb in the surface, but it should be hard just a few thousandths underneath. ASAP, place in a preheated oven at 450°, checked with an oven thermometer. Cook for two hours, let cool, then repeat one more time. If all went well, you should have a decent blade of around 58Rc, even though not to it's maximum potential. If you have more warp than you care to live with after all this, contact me. As to how to insert the blade into the quench. Many go in edge down. I go in point down. Either way works, but I've had less warping going point first. Either way, get it under quickly, but as close to 90 degrees to the oil as you can aim it. Good luck. I think you will be satisfied with the results. Jeez, I think my post on this is as long as one from Paul V! Just kidding Paul.
My first recommendation is that, if you plan to use a magnet to know when to quench, throw it far away. It will not be of use for judgeing quench heat. If you shaped using stock removal, follow this. If you forged, you will need to normalize the blade first. To normalize 01, first bring to a bright red-orange in dim light. Let cool. Then bring to a dull red. let cool. Then bring to just non-magnetic, no more than that. let cool. Yeah, I know. I said throw the magnet away. Go find it and use for this, then hide it. What you have done here is to minimize the grain size to about as small as it will go. Better strength. Now bring the blade back up to a good even red-orange, and try to hold it there as best you can, for at least a few minutes. Do not be too concerned with grain growth. The alloys in 01 greatly retard this problem. Be careful with the heat near the point. Do not allow any part of the blade to go to yellow heat! Quench in ATF, or slightly thinned motor oil, heated to 125° moving the blade fore, and aft, never sideways, as soon as it goes under. There will be a fire. Do not panic, it will go out as soon as the steels cools in the quench, but be prepared for it. Do this for maybe a minute, then remove. If you have warp, you have about 3, to five minutes to straighten with gloved hands, but beware beyond five minutes. Check hardness with a good file. If it does not skip, file it deeper to double check. With no decarb protection, you may experience decarb in the surface, but it should be hard just a few thousandths underneath. ASAP, place in a preheated oven at 450°, checked with an oven thermometer. Cook for two hours, let cool, then repeat one more time. If all went well, you should have a decent blade of around 58Rc, even though not to it's maximum potential. If you have more warp than you care to live with after all this, contact me. As to how to insert the blade into the quench. Many go in edge down. I go in point down. Either way works, but I've had less warping going point first. Either way, get it under quickly, but as close to 90 degrees to the oil as you can aim it. Good luck. I think you will be satisfied with the results. Jeez, I think my post on this is as long as one from Paul V! Just kidding Paul.
Trkdriver99
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Wick,
That is an excellent post. You told it in a very usable way. Now if I can just get my kiln up and buy me an anvil, I can try it.
It was not quite as long as one of Paul's, but I could understand it all.
Ronnie
That is an excellent post. You told it in a very usable way. Now if I can just get my kiln up and buy me an anvil, I can try it.
It was not quite as long as one of Paul's, but I could understand it all.
Ronnie
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Thanks Wick. I think I can pull off what you are talking about. The detail is awesome although I had to read some of the parts real, real slow. :grin: I'm thinkin there's more to this blacksmith stuff than fire and whackin steel. I'll let you know how it turns out, I'll probably do it next weekend.
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If you pursue smithing blades, 1080/84 is much easier to get a good HT with, when using simple HT methods. It is almost fool proof, and is much cheaper than 01. 1080 is basicly iron and carbon with a bit of manganese, which helps with the simple HT. Almost any of the thin oils will do a good enough job of it. 1080/84 is right at the eutectoid line, meaning there will be no left over carbides to deal with, and will go easily into solution with a minimum soak. It will also hold an edge very well, and is very strong, and even stronger if the spine is softened after the main HT. 1070/75 is not too bad, but you are giving up carbon with no real advantage to any of the processes in forging, or HTing it. Simple equipment/simple steel. Better results. If I can help in any way, contact me.
There's a store here in Loveland that sells O1 over the counter it's called Fastels. I hope I spelled that right. There's one in Ft Collins, Longmont, loveland Co. You should move south and become a Greeney like me. "I grew up in Wyomoming"
Regards
Loyd Shindelbower
Loveland Colorado
Regards
Loyd Shindelbower
Loveland Colorado
