Need Set Trigger Help

[jfaldo]

OK so here's the issue that I think I know the solution for but want to make 100% sure before doing any changes. My new flintlock set triggers are basically acting like a simple set trigger where the trigger has to be set before going to full cock or it will not engage the full cock notch. Of course this should be a universal trigger and be able to be cocked and fired with only the front trigger.

When the lock is installed the sear bar is hitting the rear trigger bar about the sear bars width below the top edge of the trigger bar. Now in reading of Gunsmith of Grenville County it seems that he's saying initially it's acceptable to have about 1/8" of engagement of the sear bar to trigger bar movement and then adjust by filing the sear bar till the trigger engages the full cock notch? So my question is should the sear bar actually be contacting the trigger bar at all and why remove any metal from the sear bar instead of just from the trigger bar?

 

[don hepler]

A couple things here.....first there are two types of double triggers. One has to have the rear trigger set before the gun can be cocked. The second you can cock the gun, then set the trigger. We need to determine, which one you have.

The trigger bar should not touch the sear bar. If you can cock and press the sear bar, when the lock is out of the gun, then the lock is working correctly. (Be careful when testing a lock, and catch the hammer with a rag or something) A set trigger can also be tested, out of the gun. The rear trigger cocks the front trigger. When the front trigger is pulled, the trigger bar flies up striking the sear bar. The reason the sear bar and trigger bar must not touch is.....when the sear drops into full engagement, at full cock, the sear bar moves down, just a tiny bit, allowing the sear to drop over into full cock. This is due to positive engagement angle of the notch in the tumbler.

Is this a new build?

 

[jfaldo]

Yes this was built recently by a fairly reputable shop. The lock functions properly out of the gun and the triggers work properly without the lock installed. The lock also will go to full cock when just slight pressure is applied to the rear trigger. I'm thinking the top of the rear trigger bar just needs a little relief to clear the sear bar to rectify the issue.
I

 

[Dane]

You need to establish a bit of space between the trigger bar and the sear.
From looking at your photo, you seem to have a clearance screw between your triggers. Turning it in slightly should give you the clearance you need .

 

[jfaldo]

The set trigger adjustment screw is bottomed out at this point.

 

[necchi]

The leaf spring that drives the rear trigger is mounted with a single screw.
That screw also adjusts how much pressure the spring applies to the rear trigger cam.
Sometimes,,
That screw can be so tight that it keeps the rear cam too high when un-set.
Try loosening that screw a bit.

Another fairly common problem that causes your issue is the trigger is inlet too deep, you can try to bed or shim under the rear of the trigger plate and that will bring the rear cam down a bit.
Sure you can grouse about how the "reputable builder" made a mistake, but we all do. Just fix it yourself, :idunno:

 

[jfaldo]

I'm not saying anything about the builder because I'm not much into bashing people trying to make a living like the rest of us.
Actually everything worked when I received the rifle a few weeks ago. I'm thinking this may be from the huge change in humidity from where it was built to where it now lives that created the issue. I had considered the shim idea also may try playing with that this weekend.

 

[don hepler]

It is true, the inletting can be real close, and then the wood shrinks. I's try the shim first. Then you'll have two choices, if it works. Make a more permanent shim (such as bedding or epoxy), or file a little off the trigger bar. If I remember correctly, I think I have a couple rifles with shims, in them.

 

[Chevythunderman]

Remember when filing to check after a little filing and check again. Its very easy to take to much off....Its a lot easier to take off than to put back on. I would use a shim first to see if that fixes your issue then I would file the trigger bar to fix the issue. That way your shim wouldn't fall out if you ever disassemble the gun and be left with looking for another shim to fix the issue.

 

[necchi]

I'm not much into bashing people trying to make a living like the rest of us.

Good for you, I'm sorry if my comment came off wrong.

 

[jfaldo]

I'm sorry if my comment came off wrong.

Nothing to apologize for I actually took it as a compliment and thank you.
This rifle left the builder functioning properly because it arrived here functioning properly. So something changed and I really believe the wood has shrunk enough to cause the problem because the only thing I've done with the rifle is take it out and shoot it twice and remove the lock to clean it twice. It was built in a place with very high humidity and then shipped here where the humidity is single digits a lot of days.
I sure do appreciate all the helpful advice on this issue. I think I'll play around with the shim approach and see if that will correct it without doing any filing.

 

[Zonie]

If the front trigger is capable of firing the gun without the rear trigger being set then file a small bit off of the rear triggers blade (lever).

Put another way, if you can get the gun to cock by pushing rearward just a bit on the rear trigger, without actually setting the rear trigger and then the front trigger will fire the gun, the rear trigger blade is too tall or the trigger assembly is set too deeply into the stock.

If the front trigger does not have a blade to hit the trigger arm, your stuck with what you have, a double set, SINGLE lever trigger and that's the way they work.

 

[jfaldo]

I can put pressure on the rear trigger without setting it and get it to go to full cock. So looks like a shim or a file.

 

[Pete G]

The problem occurs because the trigger is contacting the sear bar while at rest. This indicates that the trigger bar is too high. A shim can sometimes fix this, but a more permanent solution is to examine the contact point where the kickoff spring bears on the rear trigger and adjust accordingly. There are several ways of doing this. L & R triggers now use a small set screw under the kickoff spring. Look closely to see if your rifle has this feature. It is a very small allen headed screw that is between the rear trigger and the hold screw for the kickoff spring. Often it is hidden by the guard so you'll probably have to remove that. If you do have this, turn it in a little so that the spring does not touch the trigger while at rest. If your builder used a different trigger, you can achieve the same effect by filing a little on the tip of the spring and/or the bearing surface behind the trigger. Go slowly and test often. A little bit can make a big difference. Incidentally the TOW catalog has a good section on triggers that covers the installation of set triggers.

 

[vulture]

This is a side note, not directly on subject but one I wanted to insert here. For those of us who do not have access to good shim material I have found a source that is local and very easy to obtain, and not really too costly, and gives you a large variety of sizes. I just purchase any cheap set of feeler gauges from the local hardware or parts store and cute them up to produce the size of shim I need. This of course if you are talking about metal shims, which is what I would use in this case.

 

[EC121]

Drill and tap a hole right under the high point of the mainspring and install a headless set screw to hit the spring. You can raise the spring a bit to lower the trigger bar, and you won't see the screw. It will still throw the trigger bar with enough force to set it off. 4-40 thread should work.

 

[jfaldo]

It's fixed! Thanks for all the great suggestions you guys are the best. I opted to just shim it a little with a washer around the rear trigger screw and two pieces of toothpick on the side of the front of the trigger plate. It works exactly as it should now.