Need some assitance with my first flintlock choice

[dylan84]

I got a TC Renegade flintlock and it had the early lock with poor geometry. All they changed is the cock. The cock that is on there can be reforged to work satisfactory or what I will eventually do is just replace the whole lock with a better option. The cool thing with most of TC stuff is you can swap out barrels really easily. I hand forged the cock, rehardened the frizzen, and slapped a French amber flint on there and it sparks as good as a cheap mass produced lock is going to spark.

 

[TDM]

Go to some local Black Powder shoots-rendezvous or other historical gatherings,. Some very nice used guns on the market. Search for clubs in your area and give them a call and ask around. The minute you buy one of those T/C it will be worth maybe half that at best when you want to sell it.

I’d certainly buy one for half the price he was quoted.

 

[Flintlock]

If you get interested in trekking or historical reenacting the T?C rifles while very dependable guns are as historically accurate as a Toyota Carrola in a chariot race.

 

[stephenprops1]

20% of $500 is $100 so the .45 price would be $400 , 20% of 600 is $120 so the 54 would be $420 ,
The rifles are on consignment so ask for a better cash deal .
Consignment rifles are usually on consignment because either the shop either doesn't want to buy them for stock or the the seller want's too much money for them .Often the shop wants to sell them to replace them with stock it can make more profit on. So haggle
T/C rifles seem to have a ready market so as long as you look after the rifle you should be able to get your money back if you want to get a better Longrifle .
From what I have seen of Kibler's on this forum one of those would be the way to go

I work in a gun shop. When people put guns on consignment, they either have a firm price or a flexible price. The store takes a 20% commission of whatever the gun sells for. So, there may be some haggle room. It doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[rkrcpa]

Ad in a forum local to me has a NIB flintlock T/C Hawken for $950.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

In my local shop there are two T/C Hawken Muzzleloaders. Both are flintlock and 28" Barrel. One is .45 caliber and the other is .54 caliber. Both rifles are in an 8/10 condition. They look excellent down the bore but the price has me halted. The .45 Hawken is $500 and the .54 Hawken is $600. The shop clerk said the prices can come down but not by more than 20% as they are on consignment. I havent had any luck in finding a flinter and the Penn Hunter I wanted sold before I could finally make my decision. My fork in the road that is holding me up is should I go for a Thompson Center ? I like the look of the long rifles but I dont know if I am ready to spend longrifle money. At that same point spending $400-600 now is more money after I spend $1200-$1700 for a longrifle later. I found a Dixie Gun Works Tenn Mtn Rifle that caught my eye on the internet but it was percussion so I would have to convert it which is about $250-300 and the rifle is $695.00. There is a nice .45 cal cherry stock rifle here on the forum but its $1600 and that would mean me throwing all my money at a small bore rifle. I will only be hunting white tails so it wouldnt be so bad I guess. I dont know where to go from here I guess... lol. I dont know if I should by a production model or go out and get a Kibler, Kashtuk, Cabin Creek, TVM, Jim Chambers or Penatonica. Anyone want to shed some light on my rather dreary situation.

My home state is Maryland and will be where I hunt. I hunt in Allegheny County and my property is in thr mountains so its hilly and wooded densely. Longest shots might be 80 yards... one day most wont top 50. Lowest legal caliber is .40 caliber with 60 gr of powder in a rifle and 40gr in a pistol. Like I said above this rifle will be a White Tail Deer hunting rifle. I know its sounds kinda dumb to ask this question here but its been knawing at me for the better bit of 3 months. Thanks to everyone who takes their time to read this and comment their thoughts and opinions.

I can tell you from experience that my choice for deer is a .530 prb. They do allot of dammage! I recovered a ball that was flat like a quarter! Those prices seem high for used production rifles. Check out liveauctioneers for better deals.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

There is a nice .45 cal cherry stock rifle here on the forum but its $1600 and that would mean me throwing all my money at a small bore rifle. I will only be hunting white tails so it wouldnt be so bad I guess. I dont know where to go from here I guess... lol. I dont know if I should by a production model or go out and get a Kibler, Kashtuk, Cabin Creek, TVM, Jim Chambers or Penatonica. Anyone want to shed some light on my rather dreary situation.

My home state is Maryland and will be where I hunt. I hunt in Allegheny County and my property is in thr mountains so its hilly and wooded densely. Longest shots might be 80 yards... one day most wont top 50. Lowest legal caliber is .40 caliber with 60 gr of powder in a rifle and 40gr in a pistol. Like I said above this rifle will be a White Tail Deer hunting rifle. I know its sounds kinda dumb to ask this question here but its been knawing at me for the better bit of 3 months. Thanks to everyone who takes their time to read this and comment their thoughts and opinions.

Greetings from Damascus

So the .45 isn't a "small bore". In fact I'd venture to say, that the patched, .45 round ball has probably taken more whitetail than any other of the calibers. I write this because black powder round ball continued to be a common method of taking deer in the East, and especially in Appalachia up through WW2 (and still well known today) , and the .45 appears to be the most popular from the ACW to the first half of the 20th century in the East. (OK so historically that could be from a .420 ball to a . 460 ball due to hand rifled barrels).

A 60-70 grain 3Fg load launching a .440 patched round ball, will very much do the trick for you, even out to 100 yards. So IF you want that .45 long rifle, I'd say get it.

Advantages
While you dump your whole budget, you have acquired the longrifle that you have been considering without the preceding interval of using a used, factory rifle...
Sight distance aka sight-plane is good and long, make accuracy easier for the human eye
Actual trajectory for example, in a load launched at 1500 fps with a zero of 80 yards is less than 2" high and drops only to 3" low at 100 yards.
Recoil is pretty much unnoticed in the .45 patched round ball


LD

 

[Harmonica Bob]

@TDM has it spot on.

I look at tools as a part of the cost of the project, amortized over the number of projects they're used for. If I buy the raw materials for $100, and tools for $100, then I have $200 in the project. If the finished project is worth $200, then I got the tools for free. If I use them again then I only have $50 in tools in each of the projects and I'm money ahead.

As an example, before I started building I had none of those small wood carving tools, or gravers and an engraving chasing hammer. Now that I have them I have found many (non gun building) uses for them as well, and the skills you acquire are directly transferable to many other things.

For me the knowledge and skills I develop while building, or doing other work on guns and other things, is far more valuable than just the finished product. As well as an enjoyable hobby, it's an investment in yourself!

 

[Col. Batguano]

"I'm always ready to learn things. It's just that I don't much like being taught by some of the teachers."

Winston Churchill

 

[TDM]

Yep, that’s a hard thing to get over for most folks, me included!

 

[Harmonica Bob]

If you get interested in trekking or historical reenacting the T?C rifles while very dependable guns are as historically accurate as a Toyota Carrola in a chariot race.

Yes! They are fine rifles, until people see you with one at a rendvoue. I use my TC Hawken, with a fine, deep grooved drop-in barrel, and a scope, and .530 rb, to kill deer. It's like back in the day, when first got a motorcycle, I had a Yamaha 700. A woman, on her Shovelhead, told me to "get a bike"! lol. I even got one of thoes TC, "new fangled things", cause it was $85, but to go to events I would want to take a tradional rifle, and my best shooter. Please go to events, and bring whatever rifle you have. Don't get me wrong! I wouldn't be without a production gun. I just would want to have others.

 

[TDM]

I love a beautiful, traditional muzzleloader built from pretty much all the traditional schools. Some don’t do much for me personally, but I can appreciate the craftsmanship in all of them. But I have no problem with those that only own and shoot a production gun, a TC, CVA, or Traditions rifle is fine and certainly better than no muzzleloader at all.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I started with a 54, gave it away. Built a 45. Mine does 2033FPS, so deer and other critters dont have a chance. Weighs less too. In the past 30 years Ive had two production guns, and one home made.
The 54 rifle I gave to an EX, the pistol I have now Ive dumped over$100 bucks into just so its reliable.

certainly better than no muzzleloader at all.

I would disagree. Maybe a cap gun, but Ive not seen a production flinter that works well without tinkering.

 

[mec0621]

Sent you a PM, I don't live far from you and have both a TC Renegade and a custom long rifle both in .54 that you could try before you make your decision

 

[Absoroka]

You might also check with some of the major suppliers like Dixie Gun Works, Track of the Wolf or Log Cabin Shop for comparative prices. If you really want a long rifle, they almost always have a selection of used rifles and know enough to give you an accurate assessment of condition, particularly the bore.

 

[lbothell]

You said your in Maryland I believe, I would say either give Dixon’s muzzleloader shop in Pa a call and see what they have to just take the drive I promise you won’t be disappointed! I’m 5 hrs away snd it’s worth the drive, last time I was there he had 30 plus guns just hanging on the ceiling! That didn’t count the other guns he had around the store. There are always 45s there and bigger calibers. Small calibers are the ones they don’t always have in stock (32,36) but give them a call, I have got a nice custom 40 for around $750 now it wasn’t brand new or anything but the bore was shiny and the parts alone were worth that. I would take as Much cash as you have and have a good time! It’s true buy once cry once but then your done. You can have this gun the rest of your life!

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

To me the solution is simple: buy both of the T/C guns quick before the price goes up. You will not regret your choice.

 

[Timber Wolf]

To me the solution is simple: buy both of the T/C guns quick before the price goes up. You will not regret your choice.

I like the way you think.

 

[dr.s.goerisch]

Here's some pictures of the hammer to identify the differences.

Thanks for posting that picture. Are there any other differences between TC flintlocks old and new,
besides the "old" hammer being looking somewhat more elegant to my dim old eyes?

 

[Grenadier1758]

@dr.s.goerisch, the new T/C it better designed, along with the new frizzen, to be easier o flints and generate more sparks to the pan for better ignition reliability.