Need some help....please!

[aprayinbear]

Greetings Everyone,

I recently put together my version of a southern mountain rifle, using an R.E. Davis Late Ketland lock and set triggers. Used a straight Rice barrel in .40 cal. I definitely was learning as I went along, but I'm proud of her none the less. Shoots accurately and is a real attention getter at the range.

My problem is, the cock will not catch (half or full cock) unless I set the trigger first. Lock works fine when removed from the rifle, but not when installed. I was first thinking the trigger assembly was set in too deep, but I'm also thinking that the sear inlet hole is slightly off center and may be rubbing against the sear until set.

Suggestions?

 

[bang]

My understanding that is how some double triggers work. Only one I have experience with is my Hawken. It's cock then set.

 

[Zonie]

There are two possible reasons you have to set the triggers first. One of them you can fix with some file work. The other can only be fixed by replacing the set triggers.

There are two different kinds of set triggers. One of them that is commonly used on factory made guns is the Double Set, Double Lever or Double Phase type.
There are "levers" or "blades' on top of each trigger. The front triggers blade pushes up on the sear arm when the trigger is pulled so it can fire the gun without first setting the rear trigger.

Then, there is the Double Set, Single Lever or Single Phase type. This trigger does not have a "lever" or blade on top of the front trigger so it is impossible to use it to fire the gun when the trigger is not set.
These Single lever triggers are also designed so that the rear lever is always pushing up on the lock sear arm unless it is first "set". That will make it impossible to set the lock to half cock or full cock when the trigger is not first set.

Pull the trigger assembly out of your gun and compare it with the picture above. If the front trigger does not have a blade on it, the trigger is a Double Set, Single Lever type and the only way to fix your problem is to replace the trigger with a Double Set, Double lever (phase) style trigger.

If your trigger is a Double Set, Double Lever (phase) type, the reason your trigger has to be set first is because the trigger assembly is installed too deeply into the stock or, more likely, its because you haven't adjusted the height of the blades to match the location of the sear arm on your lock.

To adjust the blades, you will need to file the blades tops down so they won't push on the sear arm when they are left in the "unset" condition.
Some set triggers have an adjustment screw on the rear blades spring so you can reduce the amount of force the spring exerts. Doing this will lower the position of the rear triggers blade so it won't be pushing on your locks sear arm. This screw I'm talking about IS NOT the screw that is between the triggers. It is another screw that is located behind the rear trigger.
If your trigger has this screw, before you do any filing, try adjusting the screw to fix the problem.
If the adjustment screw doesn't do the job or, if it doesn't exist the only solution is to file the tops of the front and rear triggers blade down so it won't push on the lock sear arm.

I guess I should also mention, if the set triggers are installed a little too deeply into the stock, sometimes the problem can be fixed by adding a wood shim between the triggers and the stock. IMO, it only works if the set triggers depth needs just a slight adjustment because by shimming the triggers this way, they can end up hanging down, outside the bottom of the stock. IMO, that can look pretty crappy.

 

[bang]

What he said.

 

[aprayinbear]

Thank you so much. That gives me a great place to start. I'll report back once I remove the trigger assembly a little later this evening! Thanks again!

 

[Grenadier1758]

You probably have the double set, double phase set triggers. Most likely the trigger lever from the rear trigger lever is too high and is pushing the sear out of the half cock and full cock notches. With the lock out, look into the sear lever hole. Pull the front trigger. You should see it move in the hole. You may already see the set trigger lever. If you have to set the triggers to install the lock, then the blade on the set trigger is likely too tall.

Before we get too carried away, take a look at the trigger plate. Is the surface flush with the stock or is the trigger plate recessed into the stock. If the trigger plate is flush with the surface, then you need to remove the triggers. You may have to remove the trigger guard first by carefully removing the pins holding the guard in place. Look for the adjustments that Zonie is talking about. Lowering the blades by the screw adjustment would be great, but you may need to file some of the set trigger blade down.

If the plate is recessed into the stock, then a shim will lower the set trigger blade.

 

[Pete G]

You can also file a small amount off the bearing surface of the spring.

 

[billraby]

Here is a video explanation of how to set up double triggers.

 

[aprayinbear]

I checked and I do have a double set/phase trigger. I did file the trigger slightly lower but was afraid to go much further. Also I was correct, the hole I drilled for the sear was slightly off so I opened it a bit so there was no interference. All that being said, I decided I don't mind setting the trigger before pulling the cock back. I understand that some originals were like this anyway. The trigger works well with this configuration.

 

[Pete G]

Some triggers have a small adjustment screw to fix this.

 

[Zonie]

I checked and I do have a double set/phase trigger. I did file the trigger slightly lower but was afraid to go much further. Also I was correct, the hole I drilled for the sear was slightly off so I opened it a bit so there was no interference. All that being said, I decided I don't mind setting the trigger before pulling the cock back. I understand that some originals were like this anyway. The trigger works well with this configuration.

If your target shooting or plinking where you'll be taking the next shot soon after loading and capping the nipple, that's fine.
If you are a hunter that wants to carry their gun with a primer on the nipple, I don't recommend using the gun with the triggers set and the hammer at the full cock position.

Truth be known, if you are filing material off of the rear trigger blade, you just about can't take too much off as long as the top surface has some thickness of steel under it. 3/32 or more thickness is all that is required.

If I were you, I would continue filing the rear triggers blade down until it doesn't interfere with bringing the lock to full cock.

 

[gemmer]

The adjustment screw, a "backlash screw" is an easy install. Drill and tap the trigger plate for a 6-32 slotted screw to contact the mainspring just behind the curved part of the rear trigger. If you go to Track Of The Wolf's website, click on gun parts, then triggers, then double set Kentucky style, page two and you'll see trigger sets that have the screw installed. Tighten the screw against the mainspring to take some tension off the rear trigger, allowing the lever to drop lower, out of contact with the sear. There should be a little play in the trigger. The screw should be about the same length as the set trigger adjustment screw.