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Dan, lots of good info given and i’m sure more to come. Question for you…do you know any experienced muzzleloader shooters? Reason why is if you do see if they will go with you to check out the ones you talked about. They know what to look for and find/pointout any issues they might see or not. Not all gun shops have workers that are knowledgible in muzzleloaders. Another good thing if you know someone and they can help you out it will help shorten the learning curve and give you plenty of advice instead of going in blind. I know you want it for this hunting season but you can’t rush it. There is alot to learn about them, you need to be proficint with it…after all we owe it to ourselves as sportsmen and the game were after.

As far as the ones you stated above myself…i would go with the T/C for starts and later on get a Kibler. Another place for parts for the T/C is RMC OX-YOKE LLC in Bellefonte, Pa. They have a website.
 
I agree with some others in get the T/C for now and get instant gratification ( as in shoot it tomorrow). Then take your time putting together the rifle you really want. If getting a 50 T/C I'd recommend rifle #2 as a .54.
 
And....

Does being anywhere near historically correct matter at all to you? Then again it is the Kibler.

Sorry haters, I got into this hobby because I was interested in history.

Now fire away.
 
On one hand I would like to put together a .54 caliber Kibler rifle but I doubt I will have it done in time for hunting season in October. On the other hand a local gun shop has an 1858 Enfield Parker Hale Model its a good looker .577 caliber, the shop also has a Thompson Center Pennsylvania Hunter .50 caliber (flintlock). I was wondering which rifle of the three would best suit all year hunting and to that regard what other forum members use for a muzzleloader for an all year muzzleloader only hunt if any member has done that. Thanks for the input ahead of time.

ONE QUESTION that folks haven't mentioned..., Do You have a place to hunt yet? Is it private land? Because you're going to need that too, in addition to the rifle. You're looking at 100 yards or less, and the closer the better. Yes the Enfield is designed to go much farther, against human targets standing in a line during a battle, but deer hunting is different. ;) So in all three options some of your free time will be getting a place to hunt, and then looking around for a good spot to be ready when the season opens.

Have you checked the bores on the Enfield and the TC? First..., make sure they are not loaded, then check. Not a hollow warning..., there are lots of horror stories about pawn shops and LGS's offering used guns for sale and not having checked for a previous load....


PROS and CONS

PRO

Enfield..., Caplock, so avoids some of the problems of flinters, and pretty much can be made "all weather". It's already assembled. Uses a .58 projectiles, so no worries when you hit your deer... or elk.... or moose.....

Kibler Kit..., great reputation, and finished product is usually excellent. Several of his kits are available in the next few days for immediate shipping. Two available are in .58 and even with a .58 round ball, no worries on deer..., or elk..., or moose. Two are available in .45 for immediate shipping and that will give you low recoil, and be fine for deer. I'd choose a barrel over 39" IF you're going with one of the ones on sale. The barrel will be new, so no worries on a damaged, used bore. The most historically accurate of the flint options.

TC Pennsylvania Hunter..., has a good rep and a durable lock. Much of the TC products had the same locks, so although no longer made, parts are pretty common. TC adjustable sight as on other TC rifles, and is windage adjustable. Lots of aftermarket sights also available. Scope capable too for aging eyes as the years go on. Specifically made for patched, round ball and flintlock only restrictions in PA (hence the name) and any other place with such reg. 32" barrel, gives slightly longer sight plane than other half-stocked rifles. .50 will take deer, no worries, and it's already assembled.

CONS

Enfield..., that's a pretty good kick from that rifle if you use a conical. IF sights are not "on" then there may be a problem, depending on what type of sights are fitted. Triggers tend to be a bit heavy. Check the bore.

Kibler..., how long is the wait? You have four choices, two in .58 and two in .45, and otherwise, you have to wait for delivery if none of those options is for you. Plus you need to put it together. The most expensive of the options.

TC..., no longer made. Uses the standard TC adjustable sight, which is another area where parts might be a problem.

IF it was me with the limited time, and never having put a rifle together, I'd go with the TC. IF I had the time and the coin..., I'd opt for a .58 Kibler, and as I'm 60, and although blessed with far sight, and not needing glasses for much except up close, I still might just consider moving the rear sight a bit forward, and thus avoid having to do that in the future.

LD
 
The Enfield is a fine gun for deer ( I think the Parker Hale has a great rep). I have been shooting them during the past six weeks at the Scouts Mountain Man program. A reliable and efficient gun it was. And it uses Musket caps ( which are a lot easier to get than rifle caps.)
I ditto about the Kibler option. The Woodsrunner being my fav.
I also have to agree with what has been said above regarding ‘ethical hunting’ . You’re new to Muzzleloading and there is a lot more going into being proficient in this sport than you may realize as yet. Grabbing a muzzleloader off a store shelf and tramping off into the woods with it in search of that first deer… let me know where you hunt so I can stay far away.
Best advice ever: hook up with someone who truely knows what he’s doing with a muzzleloader.
 
Notwithstanding what you end up with, I'd advise you to buy the P58 as well. It if is a genuine P-H they are rare enough and much sought-after, handier than the three-band rifle P53. To make sure it's a real P-H, check the serial number. If it's less-than-9000-ish, with the 5-groove heavier barrel it's the modern replication rifle of choice of many longer range shooters here in UK. The service load of 2.5 drams - 68.5gr of 1 1/2 Fg, and it's 535gr Minié bullet is sure-fire effective on any deer within 100 yards, although, of course, they will shoot much further. Here in UK they are sheer murder on paper at 600 yards - ask Mr Minshall of the MLAGB.
 
Its been a while since I have posted. I have been quite busy and now I have returned to a matter which has been on my mind for months and that is muzzleloading. I still do not own a muzzleloader and I want to get a nice one. I also want to go through this year's entire Deer Hunting Season with only a muzzleloader during both the muzzleloader and firearms seasons. I know off the bat that a smoothbore is off the table cause for one I probably wouldnt be able to hit the broadside of a barn and for two a rifle can extend the hunting range. However now I am left at a crossroads. On one hand I would like to put together a .54 caliber Kibler rifle but I doubt I will have it done in time for hunting season in October. On the other hand a local gun shop has an 1858 Enfield Parker Hale Model its a good looker .577 caliber, the shop also has a Thompson Center Pennsylvania Hunter .50 caliber (flintlock). I was wondering which rifle of the three would best suit all year hunting and to that regard what other forum members use for a muzzleloader for an all year muzzleloader only hunt if any member has done that. Thanks for the input ahead of time.
At the risk of being labeled an elitist curmudgeon, if you have limited experience with minies, or don't cast, or are unwilling to listen to those with experience, or are unwilling to put some time into this, leave the Parker Hale Enfield for somebody who knows what they're doing. You will be far better served with the T/C.

A Parker Hale Enfield is capable of outstanding accuracy BUT, you have to understand the minie system. There is no magic nor rocket science here, the minie system simply is nothing like patch round ball. When properly dialed in, it's a wonderful thing and more than adequate for deer.
 
Seen too many new black powder shooters get started with their new flintlock muzzleloader and give it up because flintlocks are a bit finicky compared to a percussion. Probably get flamed of that statement,,, but it's true. Breaks may heart when I see a new shooter having problems with his flintlock not working as advertised. They can't seem to understand about keeping the flint 'sharp'. They try filling the pan full and doing what they can to get powder into the vent channel. When it doesn't go well for them they get discouraged and just put the gun up and Never go black powder shooting again. I always tell them to buy a percussion to start. When they get used to shooting black powder... then after they have became acquainted with black powder and understand how it all works ,,, then give flintlocks a try. After going to a few shoots there are tons of flintlock shooters who will let them have a go at it.
 
Seen too many new black powder shooters get started with their new flintlock muzzleloader and give it up because flintlocks are a bit finicky compared to a percussion. Probably get flamed of that statement,,, but it's true. Breaks may heart when I see a new shooter having problems with his flintlock not working as advertised. They can't seem to understand about keeping the flint 'sharp'. They try filling the pan full and doing what they can to get powder into the vent channel. When it doesn't go well for them they get discouraged and just put the gun up and Never go black powder shooting again. I always tell them to buy a percussion to start. When they get used to shooting black powder... then after they have became acquainted with black powder and understand how it all works ,,, then give flintlocks a try. After going to a few shoots there are tons of flintlock shooters who will let them have a go at it.
I'm in agreement. Good points.
 
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