Needing some advice

[TheHappyHunter]

Hey folks,new member here.
Not new to muzzleloaders,but its been eons since I bought or used a percussion.
Been a lifelong hunter,and years ago.switched over to centerfires,compounds and crossbows.
Seems I'm about to come full circle,and pick I p trad gear again.
Need some advice on who makes an affordable. 50 percussion,with all wood stock,and percussion shotguns as well.
To let you know how long its been,when i was into it before you could buy CVA Hawken kits at Kmart for next to nothing.

Anyways,I look now,and am amazed at all the different makers,and materials etc etc.
All I'm looking for is a good rock solid,dependable side lock in all wood that won't break the bank and still get the job done.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Zonie]

It sounds like your looking for a basic rifle that will get the job done rather than something that is historically correct?

Thompson Center got out of building traditional side lock rifles several years ago and since they were bought by Smith & Wesson they have quit honoring the old TC warranty but there are still a lot of used TC Hawkens on the market at reasonable prices. That's where I would look first.

If you want to buy something new and keep the costs as low as possible, that would be something from Traditions. Basically, they are about the same guns CVA offered back in the 80's thru the '90's .
The CVA's offered in the '80's and '90's had improved locks in them as compared with the locks that were sold in the '70's in CVA rifles.

I would shy away from any of their plastic stocked sidelock guns but some Traditions wood stocked rifles are still being made.

Next up the scale price wise would be the rifles offered by Lyman.
The Lyman Trade Rifle and the Lyman Deerstalker are both good, quality guns at middle of the road prices.
The Lyman Great Plains Rifle is about the nearest thing to a real Hawken rifle and it is one of the more expensive rifles to buy in the mid priced range. It's almost 9 pound weight can also become a bit much to carry for long distances.

 

[MountainSmoke]

Welcome back! Like Zonie said Thompson Center probably made one of the best production muzzleloaders and they were made in the USA. There are still a ton of good used ones to be found if you know where to look. They pop up from time to time in the classifieds on here. Track Of The Wolf also has a good used selection as does The Gun Works. Traditions makes a ton of affordable muzzleloaders. They are made in Spain and from my experience the quality of Traditions muzzleloaders has stepped up from what they used to be. I have a couple and while not to be compared with the quality of a custom gun or even a TC they are solid built and great shooters. Good luck in your search

 

[deermanok]

I vote with the other guys on the Traditions rifles. Their deerhunter rifle would be a good choice.
Light weight, 1/48 twist barrel. Can handle conicals or patched round ball.

 

[MountainSmoke]

As far as a percussion shotgun goes unfortunately there are very few to choose from and they tend to be pricey when found. Pedersoli of Italy makes some nice side by side percussion shotguns but they will run north of a grand in price. Another option that could satisfy both your rifle and your shotgun needs would be to find a Thompson Center Renegade or New Englander. They are usually available as rifles but both have smoothbore barrels available for them as well. The Renegade had a 56 caliber smoothbore barrel made for it and the New Englander had a 12 gauge barrel that was made. The guns themselves in rifle form are not that hard to find used but the smoothbore barrels for them are somewhat hard to find but do pop up occasionally. This way if you got one of these rifles (which are both great guns) you could keep an eye out and maybe find a smoothbore barrel to add to it giving you a rifle / shotgun in the same platform. Just a thought. Good luck.

 

[TheHappyHunter]

Thanks folks!
Yep..the times have definitely changed.
I found Pedersoli shotguns for a tad over 800,and there just aren't really any others that make them,so Pedersoli it will be.
Found out that the Cabelas bp shotguns were made by him as well.
As for a rifle....I wish I would've bought every CVA Hawken I saw back in the 80s.
Yep...i definitely do not want any plastic stocks. Ill look at the classifieds here, simply because I think people who take the time to join a forum,and then sale on it....probably take care and clean them properly.
Ill.look into the Lyman series. That may be the one.
I'd like historically accurate,but in reality,a solid wood stock and a quality barrel definitely suits my needs.
Looked at TVM muzzleloaders,and they sure look nice,but that price tag sure don't!
Idk though....may be better off to spring for a good one this year,and the shotty next year.

 

[Pete G]

Buy what you are going to end up with. Anything less is false economy.

 

[William O.]

You might want to have on of the many builders who frequent this and other muzzle loader forums to build you a Trade Gun in the white for you to finish yourself. That way you can choose the gauge, type of wood and lock, which usually can be had for a grand or less. Plus if you are like me and need something more than the average length of pull, or less, you can get the stock made to your measurements. One of the Trade Gun kits might also got your needs, if you have the time and skills to assemble one. As has been said, a used New Englander can be found. Check Gunbroker, Guns America, for used examples.

As far as rifles go, I always liked the Lyman offerings and owned several of their Trade Rifles and Great Plains rifles in both right and left hand models. The .54 Trade Rifle was my first front stuffer and it shot a bullseye at 100 yards right out of the box. They are built like tanks and while they don't resemble anything historical I found them to be accurate and reliable. Since I'm left handed and the TR only comes in RH I sent one to a builder who used the barrel and most of the other components to make me a cherry stocked, left hand rifle that I treasure. I understand that in the last few years the fit and finish of the Lyman rifles has gone downhill so when buying used, learn to use the serial number to determine the date of manufacture.

Here is Big Red, my Frankenstein .54.

 

[Cowboy]

Have a little of everything. On the production side of things the TC Hawken, Lyman Trade Rifle, and Cabela’s Hawken are all mid price range. They’re all dependable, built well, and accurate if you do your part.

Can pretty much find these in excellent condition in the $350-$450 range?

Lots of parts still available out there for these as well.

The Lyman Trade Rifle is still in production if I’m not mistaken?

Both the Lyman Trade Rifle, and Cabela’s Hawken are made by Investarm out of Italy. Investarm produces some descent mid range production muzzleloader’s.

Whatever you decide on? These examples are worth holding on to if you decide on something different and more expensive down the road? They’ll give you many memories of fun filled days. Won’t break the bank either!

Lastly, only my opinion my friend. I personally wouldn’t jump in with both feet and right off buy a custom muzzleloader?

Our taste in schools ( type) of muzzleloader, caliber, and other considerations are likely to change the longer you’re around and getting into this hobby, sport, and for some of us “ life style “.

This is how I’d start if I was getting back into it again.

Wish you success in finding your muzzleloader.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Kansas Jake]

Cowboy has given good advice. When I got into muzzleloaders 40 years ago mountain man/ buckskinning was all the rage. Today things seem much more diverse depending on ones location and Family history. That often pushes you in a given direction related to your interest.

 

[dave951]

Personally, I'd look for a vintage T/C in good shape and go from there if Pedersoli isn't in the budget.

As for shotguns- most folks don't stop to think that a smoothbore IS basically a shotgun. A 69cal musket is a 14ga shotgun with roundball.

 

[Ben Meyer]

The Cabelas guns are made by Investarms in Europe. They've been at it for a while. I bought a Charles Daly/Investarms Hawken a few years ago at a gun show for $215 and can vouch for it. Well made, accurate gun, that you can usually find used. Investarms built for multiple companies, but they're all the same gun. I actually killed a nice doe last year with it, 80gr 2f Goex, drylubed patched roundball(.018 pillow ticking patch, .490 ball), 42 yd shot, hit exactly where I was aiming. Deer ran 30yds and flopped dead.