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New Alamo Movie

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What I agree with is the truth lies somewhere in between Holiwood and the fictional T-V series' that we grew up with.
The American Indian "problem" was that we had to EXTERMINATE them as quickly as possible.
They were regarded as vermin and sub-human by many whites with guns.
I don't doubt the old 'indian fighters' were anything more that muderers.
Loius Wetzel, an Indian fighter was related to my Uncle Wilber. Uncle worshipped that man. Never mind that his favorite trick was to cut a sleeping Indians throat, man, woman, or child.
Not my kinda hero.
 
I finally browed the DVD and watched it yesterday. I watched the historians dialog overlay first. Visually it is quite amazing, the cannons recoiled when fired, costuming certainly portrayed the period quite well. It is after all a "Movie" meant to entertain, but it seemed to me that there weren
 
Yea, but even in the early stages of alzheimers he made better decisions than Bill Clinton did. I haven't seen the Alamo movie yet, but hope to soon.
 
I watched the Alamo for the first time over the weekend. I thought it was pretty good. Davy was portrayed well by Billy Bob. Didn't much care for the Bowie characterization, but it wasn't off much. I hate it when they use that cartoon Bowie knife, but they generally do in Hollywood, because of the influence of one collector who claims he has the original (he does not). They took liberties with the end of Crockett and there were historical flaws in the San Jacinto scenes. After all it is Hollywood.
 
My biggest complaint of the new Alamo is that the battle took place mostly at night / early morning!!!!
Made it really difficult to see them Discriminating General's Bess'! ::
As for the movie it's self,,, The old Alamo stirred me more and was exciting (I was very young). The new one was,,, shallow, more visual, and like a "flash in the pan". (nothing for content) :imo: Like a 30 minute sitcom, no in depth substance.
 
riarcher,
:agree: with what you said plus i thought billy bob thorton played a terrable davey crocket :imo:
snake-eyes :thumbsup: :) :peace: :)
 
Well hey! What a great site this is.

With respect to the new Alamo movie, I rushed to see it but only saw it once, and didn't buy it.

First nit-picking... to someone familiar with Texas the movie was clearly shot in the Texas Hill Country, not in a river-bottom setting where the Alamo (Spanish for "cottonwood") was/is located. Not much the filmmakers could do about that to be sure, likewise the brief scene of San Jacinto was set in an arid field in late summer, not at all like East Texas in March... but again production schedules is production schedules...

At least the White-eyed Vireo singing around the Alamo (probably present on the movie set) was correct, but the San Jacinto soundtrack had a jumbled set of bird calls in the background apparently comprised mostly of house sparrows, entirely wrong for that time and place (hey, for a bird watcher such things are as glaringly obvious as an AK-47 would have been).

I thought Billy Bob Thornton nailed the character of Davy Crockett, a complex man with the 'nads to stand up against Indian removal, voting his conscience as opposed to what was popular. Besides, anyone who closes his term in Congress with "you can all go to Hell, as for me I'm going to Texas" (or something like that) is all right in my book.

Crockett's revulsion at the atrocities committed during Jackson's 1813 campaign against the Creeks is well documented, although it should be pointed out that, disgusted or not, he had rejoined Jackson in time for his Florida campaign the following year.

Jason Patrick was disappointing as Bowie, Patrick didn't come across as anything like a brawling slave trader/adventurer fast approaching middle age. It has become fashionable of late to tear down Bowie as a fraud. Allow me to (once again) quote Noah Smithwick, an amazing but surprisingly little known source who absolutely did it all in early Texas, including meeting Crockett and knowing Bowie personally. FWIW Smithwick speaks highly of Bowie, here writing of the previous battle to take San Antonio (Smithwick narrowly missed the Alamo, being bedridden with a fever, likely malaria, 100 miles away in Bastrop at the time)...

"...Bowie was a born leader, never needlessly spending a bullet or imperiling a life. His voice is still ringing in my deaf old ears as he repeatedly admonished us, "Keep under cover, boys, and reserve your fire; we haven't a man to spare;" and, had he been obeyed, not a man would we have lost..."
http://www.oldcardboard.com/lsj/olbooks/smithwic/otd7.htm

Certainly not the useless drunk as has become fashionable to portray. He was, at least, apparently genuinely fond of and grief sticken over the recent loss of his young San Antonio bride, Maria Veramundi, to cholera.

Dennis Quaid was OK but insufficient I thought as Sam Houston. With respect to earlier comments made here, Houston comes across through history as anything but a devious schemer who would somehow contrive to send Travis, Crockett and Bowie to their doom.

Houston apparently was a highly principled man who never did betray the true cause of the scandalous and sudden failure of his early marriage, which separation effectively ended his promising political carreer. Likewise he never did betray his trust with the Cherokees with whom he spent much of his life, supporting fair treatment of the Tribes several times in the face of political expediency, and losing office over it. Finally, although Govenor of Texas at the time (IIRC), in 1861 he boldly spoke out against Secession. A stance which, at that time and place, got lots of innocent men and boys in Texas murdered over the next four years. Likely Houston's revered status saved him from a lynching, but doubtless he had to seriously watch his back.

I did think the movie went overboard in its attempt to portray the average Mexican as a good guy. Simple mention of the thirteen Texas Hispanics who chose to die there (despite abundant opportunities to leave) should have been enough. Very believable that the average Mexican soldier might have admired the American's courage, and that some should have known of Davy Crockett. Also believable is that some of the Mexican Officers might have pleaded for Crockett's life. Indeed the extreme reluctance of the Mexican General Jose de Urrea (not present at the Alamo) to execute American prisoners on a number of occasions during the Texas campaign in defiance of Santa Anna's direct orders is well documented.

It should be remebered though that in the turbulence of Mexican politics at the time, the execution of those who took arms against whatever Government happened to be in power was the norm. In other words, Santa Anna was doing nothing out of the ordinary when he executed any Alamo survivors, and later all 240 of Fannin's men at Goliad http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/GG/qeg2.html .

The protrayal of Santa Anna was probably the worst fault in the movie IMHO, not that he wasn't an egotistical, pompous, bloody handed killer, that part is all true. But at the time he was only 42, much younger than the actor portraying him appeared. A probable heroin addict (laudanum) and a compulsive womanizer (while in San Antonio he arranged a sham marriage, with one of his men dressed as a priest, to gain access to a local belle. And the stories of him being shacked up in his tent with a slave woman at the outbreak of San Jacinto are right in character).

Whatever he was, he was a tough and charismatic survivor, the loss of Texas being only a setback in a long and devious political career stretching more than thirty years after the Alamo (and punctuated by the State funeral of his leg, given a hero's burial after being lost in battle, and much later dug up and dragged through the streets by his opponents ::).

None of this sort of man is even hinted at in the movie.

Birdwatcher
 
Most would never guess that the "Yellow rose of Texas" Was wrtiien in memory of that malotto girl and San Jacinto.
 
I was there in 1976 (got a weekend leave from Lackland AFB) the Alamo is not really that big...

Well it weren't just the Church they were defending of course, almost all the mission grounds since having gone under.

A far better feel for what the Alamo was like can be had by visiting the three out of the five original missions that still have their grounds intact; San Jose, San Juan and Mission Espada, all contempary with the Alamo.
www.thecityofsanantonio.com/escape/thefourmissions.html
All are located in the South Side of town where many tourists fear to tread :)

San Juan and Espada especially are located not far from each other in a quiet backwater, still serving small local congregations. All this is fixing to change though, a new University complex and about 10,000 housing units are due to go in about two miles away (goodbye serenity :( ). The grounds and old walls at least are preserved by the Park Service.

San Jose is/was the largest mission, and it has been reconstructed entire by the CCC (the limestone used originally to build the missions was of poor quality, and all but one, Mission Concepcion, partially collapsed at some point. The familiar Alamo profile ain't the way it looked back in 1836). There is a pretty good movie/museum at the visitor center at San Jose, notable for some of the good history books for sale.

Mission San Jose is where, in 1840, 300 mounted Comanches challenged the soldiers to come out and fight after about 30 mostly unarmed Comanches had been gunned down by Texas troops in the Council House fight (although, in fairness, the Comanches started the fight after being told they were going to be taken prisoner in violation of a truce, almost all of them going down fighting). http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/CC/btc1.html
The troops at Mission San Jose were under orders to hold their fire and the Comanches left, frustrated. Little did they know they had killed two: one Texas Officer accused the other of cowardice for following the cease-fire order and, if memory serves me right, in the subsequent duel they fatally shot each other.

Anyways, anyone going go to Mission San Jose should look in the church doorway, there are multiple names scratched in the stonework over the years going as far back as 1847.

Ghost... there has been much arguing about if the mixed-blood beauty Emily Morgan really was the inspiration for the song, personally I have no problem with it.. http://www.qsl.net/w5www/yellowrose.html

Birdwatcher
 
In defense of Lewis Wetzel,the frontier and westward expansion stagnated at the Ohio river for approximately thirty five years.Giving both sides plenty of opportunities to hate one another.Wetzel did not do anything a Shawnee,Seneca or Delaware would not have done and some more besides.It was a time when each side wanted to exterminate the other.Wetzel could beat his enemy at thier own game saving captive whites on many occasions and making the Ohio valley a safer area for white settlement.We can not imagine the sights he witnessed to make him what he was but we do know that he was loved by the settlers and respected and hated by his enemies.He was able to keep his long hair through it all.
Lewis Wetzel your my hero.
 
Paints a simplified picture I think, to claim that ALL the long hunters and ALL the Indians were like Lewis Wetzel is plainly false, and disproven by historical accounts. Boone himself was plainly as large as his legend, yet survived capture by the Shawnee unharmed no less than three seperate occasions. Kenton was captured, and sentenced to be burned, but he wasn't.

Likewise Eckert has it that Boone early on unwittingly saved is own life by declining to shoot a Shawnee boy in the forest, the lad's father himself showing remarkable restraint by not shooting Boone out of hand as soon as Boone began to raise his rifle.

Along those lines, I believe the simgle act that most tarnished Wetzel's reputation was his alleged murder of the very Shawnee who rescued Wetzel himself from torture and execution.

In all areas of Frontier history there were abundant instances of Indian and White extending simple decency to each other, making incidents of brutality in the face of trust, like the murder of Logan's family or the Moravian massacre, all the more horrific. A cordial truce between two groups of individuals would have far less impact on the state of affairs than an outbreak of violence, and history largely records bloodshed, giving far less import to uneventful harmony.

Your thesis also completely overlooks the surprising degree of intermarriage occurring at that time among the settlers and the five civilized Tribes in the Southeast.

Hard to tell Wetzel's exact character from this distance, but individuals on both sides won reputations for being more bloody handed than perhaps they needed to be.

Birdwatcher
 
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