New-b cleaning question?

[silly goose]

OK. I just got to try out my new to me .50 cal Renegade. I could only get two shots in before dark, but I just had to try it. I loaded 60gr of fffg, holy black as you folks say, behind a .018 patch and a .490 ball. The patch was tight. I shot at a deer silhouette that I cut out of cardboard. Both shots were touching, high in the shoulder, just below the spine, at 20 yards. I'm happy for my first ever muzzleloading, and I like this rifle. Now for the questions. I'm cleaning it with warm soapy water. And after about 5 patches, I decided to try a bore brush. After a little brushing I get dirty patches. I did this a couple times. Should I keep repeating until it comes out clean? Or should I not be brushing? It feels as if there is a rough spot near the bottom of the barrel, where the load sits. Also, when I'm finished, is a coating of bore butter all I'll need to prevent rusting in the bore, or should I run something else down the bore? I don't have much on hand as I'm new to m-ling. And finally, do you think 60 gr of fffg is enough for whitetail, or should I step it up a bit? Alright, I'm gonna go scrub a bit and check back. Thanks folks, and sorry for the basic questions. By the way, I love it. Momma already said "whats that smell?", so I must be doing something right.

 

[mattybock]

Yes- do it until it comes out clean! I find one brush swipe is enough for me. Some people people used modern chemical powder solvents, and that's just fine.

I do it the old way. I plug the nipple hole with a twig, pour hot water down the barrel, and then hold my palm tight over the muzzle, then I shake the gun.

After I pour it out (black as tea) I do it again util the water comes out clean. Then I pass patches through it. My gun has no rust in the barrel. I learned that from a british musketeer reenactor. That guy was historical to the T. Those british and war time re-enactor have most of us whooped when it comes to history... but not when it come to shooting :grin:

Try 80 to 120 grains, better safe than sorry, but also, check manufacturers limits. they know more about that gun than me. I use 8o to 90 for feral hogs in my 50 hawken.

 

[ebiggs1]

Remove the nipple after you remove the barrel from the stock and put the nipple end into some WARM water and pump a patch up and down until clean. Oil it.

Oh, BTW, here is a page from the owner's manual.

 

[silly goose]

Thanks for the load data. The only difference is that I was only able to find fffg, and don't currently have any ffg black powder. If I heard it correctly I would have to reduce the charge somewhat, due to using the finer powder. Next time out, I'll up it a bit, I'm not gonna go crazy though.

 

[Bob J]

I recommend Ballistol for bore protection AFTER thoroughly cleaning and drying the bore. It's good for exterior wipe-down, too. http://www.ballistol.com/

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Thanks for the load data. The only difference is that I was only able to find fffg, and don't currently have any ffg black powder. If I heard it correctly I would have to reduce the charge somewhat, due to using the finer powder. Next time out, I'll up it a bit, I'm not gonna go crazy though.

Yes, reduce 10 gr.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I loaded 60gr of fffg, holy black as you folks say, behind a .018 patch and a .490 ball.

Not me. I simply call it "blackpowder". It's just that I never mention anything else. :wink:

 

[silly goose]

Sir, I stand corrected. This site has more personality than any other I've seen. If a smily doesn't pop up here, I tried.

 

[silly goose]

Ooh, two smily's.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Posting to yourself is a sign you've been sucking in too many BP fumes.

Which can be a good thing.

I'm just saying.

 

[William O.]

Save the Bore Butter for lubing your patches, it doesn't prevent rust. 60 grains is a good starting load, work up from there not to exceed maximum in 5 grain increments, shooting three, checking for accuracy, upping the charge, etc. You should see your groups tighten up and then open more as the charge increases, then you've found the best powder charge for your rifle. You may need to adjust your sights, try different patch lubes and/or thickness, but that will come later. Also, I recommend that you keep a jar of cleaning patches soaked in alcohol with you at the range for wiping between shots to keep the powder fouling down. Good luck, I'm sure there will be more good advice to come, and let us know how you do.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Use the Bore Butter, or any good furniture wax on the OUTSIDE of the barrel, and other metal parts, to prevent rust there. In the bore, you want something better. The problem with bore Butter in any rifle( and some smoothbores) is you can't be sure you have adequately coated all the surfaces of both the lands and grooves. Any spot left exposed to air will rust in time. If you use a product like Ballistol, it will coat all the surfaces well, and does a good job of preventing rust. Just remember to check your gun monthly, and put some new ballistol down the barrel on a cleaning patch.


Its very important to not only Clean the barrel until cleaning patches come out WHITE, but then to also completely DRY the barrel before applying oil in it to protect it from rusting.

I put a cleaning patch in front of my bore brush, so that the bristles of the brush catch and hold the fabric of the patch. The bristles will push thru the fabric, and get down into the corners of the rifling to physically scrape carbon build-up and BP residue from those corners. The Cloth cleaning patch on top of the bristles then wipes the crud out of the barrel.

Using the combination of a bore brush and my cleaning patches, dampened, and then having some liquid soap rubbed into the fabric, is the fastest way I have found to clean my barrel, with its square bottom rifling. Pore some water down the barrel to help soak loose the crud, while you scrub with the bore brush. Your gun may be different, of course. :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[Jay Gardner]

I'm a little frutrated with my cleaning process. Getting the crud out is pretty easy but getting patches that are pure white is almost impossible for me. No matter what I do when I think I'm done cleaning and send a dry white patch down and back I get brown streaks on the patch. Rust? Left over solvent? I don't know but I can't seem to get rid of it.

Note: I do not use a brush as part of the cleaning process.

Suggestions?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Use a brush instead of a jag to drive the cleaning patches. The bristles will dig out the carbon residue in the corners of your rifling.

If streaks are brown, its rust.

Use Tepid water instead of HOT water. What you create using Hot water is "flash rust", which occurs as soon as air hits the slightly damp metal after you dump out the water( or drain it out the flash channel.)

When you dump the dirty water, run a cleaning patch in front of a cleaning jag down the barrel to Dry it. You may have to run a couple of patches down, depending on caliber and length of your barrel.

Then run a new cleaning patch down soaked in Ballistol, or some other good oil to seal the surfaces of the bore, to stop any flash rust from beginning. Any good vegetable based, or mineral oil- based oil will work to protect the bare steel from rusting. Store your gun muzzle down to keep the oil out of your breech, and flash channels.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Where do you folks get your Ballistol from?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Mine was ordered from one of the suppliers, you can find under the "Links" section on the index page of this forum. I have not seen it in either hardware stores, auto supply stores, nor in sporting goods stores here locally.

It goes a long way. I am not particularly fond of its odor, BTW, and prefer to use Olive oil ( the cheapest store brand, and have even tried ordinary vegetable oil with similar results) for patch lube, and reserve the Ballistol for rust prevention, only. The odor seems to dissipate rather quickly which I consider the oil's only saving grace! :thumbsup:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

The only difference is that I was only able to find fffg, and don't currently have any ffg black powder. If I heard it correctly I would have to reduce the charge somewhat, due to using the finer powder.

The rule of thumb a lot of people cite nowadays is to reduce by 10% or so, but things can vary quite a bit with the individual firearm & load. When I first got interested in BP in the '60s, the most common rule of thumb was to increase charges by ~1/3 going from 3Fg to 2Fg (which is equivalent reduce by ~1/4 going from 2Fg to 3Fg - the ratio is 3:4) to get the same velocity. This was with references ranging from the 19th century into the '50s, and naturally varied with bore size, barrel length, and other such variables. Whenever I examine the data in loading manuals and the like, where both granulation are tested with the same barrel & projectile, I find charge differences between 3Fg and 2Fg ranging from something less than 10% to nearly 50% to get the same velocity, but the average increase is in the 1/4 to 1/3 range. Naturally, the pressure is higher with 3F. Getting the same velocity does not necessarily give the same POI - barrel harmonics, recoil, and such can come into play - which may be why the 10-15% rule-of-thumb seems to work so frequently. Accuracy is a separate matter. As has often been said, accuracy may or may not be significantly different with different powders. Every gun has its own preferences, and some are fussy while others are not.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Jay Gardner]

Where do you folks get your Ballistol from?

Would you believe Amazon.com? I just ordered some through Amazon.