New Black Powder coming

[Poor Private]

JUst found out from another forum that some people bought the old Elephant plant and equipment. They are pushing a new powder. See thier website www.diamondbackchemical.com It seems they are trying to complete with Goex. The feller said they presented a bunch of people with a pound of the new powder at a NSSA meet, but he hasn't used any yet. Anyone here know anything about it?

 

[Little Wattsy]

JUst found out from another forum that some people bought the old Elephant plant and equipment. They are pushing a new powder. See thier website www.diamondbackchemical.com It seems they are trying to complete with Goex. The feller said they presented a bunch of people with a pound of the new powder at a NSSA meet, but he hasn't used any yet. Anyone here know anything about it?

You can find lots more about it at powderinc.com
I talked to the guy there and and as the salesman he thought that it was more along the lines of reinactment powder; a little dirty, higher variables. He sells GEOX, KIK, and Diamondback (and some others) he could havesold me anything....He talked me outta the DB (as I am looking for hunting worthy powder) and sold me the KIK as IT was about the same as GEOX a tad cheaper. :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

Well, I hope they don't mind if I copy some of their information here on the MLF.

Noting that they claim to be an importer but say nothing about actual production of the powder, I read most of their information.

It says (and I quote):

"Diamondback Black Powder is manufactured by Elephant Industria Quimica (EIQ) in Brazil to DCCI’s technical specifications. EIQ has been supplying products for national and global businesses for more than 12 years and is known for tradition and quality in black powder. All products are manufactured to the most strict quality and environmental criteria and technical specifications. Product quality and ballistic tests are confirmed by SGS Group, the world's largest control and inspection company."

This tells me that Elephant must either be back in business or Diamondback has bought powder left over from before Elephant went out of business a few years ago.

In either case, in my opinion, Elephant Powder has long had a reputation for making a fairly weak powder that makes much more bore fouling than any other powder available.

I would like to think that some company who actually knows how to make high quality powder has come into existence but this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Well, I hope they don't mind if I copy some of their information here on the MLF.

Noting that they claim to be an importer but say nothing about actual production of the powder, I read most of their information.

It says (and I quote):

"Diamondback Black Powder is manufactured by Elephant Industria Quimica (EIQ) in Brazil to DCCI’s technical specifications. EIQ has been supplying products for national and global businesses for more than 12 years and is known for tradition and quality in black powder. All products are manufactured to the most strict quality and environmental criteria and technical specifications. Product quality and ballistic tests are confirmed by SGS Group, the world's largest control and inspection company."

This tells me that Elephant must either be back in business or Diamondback has bought powder left over from before Elephant went out of business a few years ago.

In either case, in my opinion, Elephant Powder has long had a reputation for making a fairly weak powder that makes much more bore fouling than any other powder available.

I would like to think that some company who actually knows how to make high quality powder has come into existence but this doesn't seem to be the case.

I read somewhere on the net when I was researching DB a couple 3 weeks ago that the a NEW company "X" had boughht all the old Elephant equipment, moved it, and started making this new powder, Blackdiamond. SO for alot of purpose it IS related to Elephant, sorta.?

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Does anyone know what it was about Elephant that made it "dirty" and give off often lower velocity than other powders? Did they use the wrong type of charcoal or something?

 

[arcticap]

Does anyone know what it was about Elephant that made it "dirty" and give off often lower velocity than other powders? Did they use the wrong type of charcoal or something?

According to an expertly written article about the subject:

Their charcoal was made from Imbauba wood which was very light and resembled a hard balsa wood.

1)

Prior to the year 2000 powder production The S/A
Pernambuco Powder Factory did not remove the
bark from the wood used to make their
charcoal.
During the wood charring process the bark quickly
chars to a very high fixed carbon content. This will
cause the powder to throw bit of glowing carbon
when ignited and burned.
Tree bark adds to bore fouling in black powder
firearms as the bark is rich in mineral matter.
Removal of the bark adds to the cost of producing a
black powder but is necessary if the powder is to
compete with powders made from debarked
alder wood charcoal.

2)

Originally the charring would be started by igniting the wood inside the tank through the
air vents in the bottom of the tank. That process was changed in the year 2000 to
"indirect" heating of the wood. A fire box being built under the tank to raise the
temperature of the wood to the point where the charring process would begin and
produce its own heat.
The charring tanks have no thermometers or other indicators of internal temperatures
during the wood charring process. The charring tank operators judging charring
conditions by observing the color of the smoke issuing from tank's vent pipes, along with
the volume of smoke produced.
The fixed carbon content of the charcoal is important in the performance of the finished
powder. This fixed carbon content being a product of charring time and charring
temperature. For a small-arms type of black powder known as a rifle type powder the
ideal fixed carbon content of the charcoal is in the range of 72 to 75%. "Under burning"
or "over burning" of the wood will have a detrimental (bum rate depressing) effect on the
bum rate of the finished powder. Charring to a high fixed carbon content will increase
bore fouling in small-arms.

http://www.laflinandrand.com/madmonk/SA_Pernambuco.pdf

 

[Zonie]

My thanks to you.
An excellent bit of information you gave there.

For those who don't know, William Knight (Madmonk) is one of more knowledgeable persons in the world when it comes to Black Powder.

I urge anyone who is interested in Elephant Powders history or just interested in what goes into making a good black powder to download that pdf file and read thru the 40 pages of information.

If your computer can't open the file, download and install the latest "Adobe Reader" from Adobe. It's free and it will open any pdf file.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Interesting-- I suspected it might be a charcoal content thing. From a lot of what I've read-- charcoal can be a big variable in terms of the wood, and in this case, also the presence of bark.

 

[nkbj]

Did Elephant have a large carbon footprint?

 

[ohio ramrod]

Elephant's carbon foot print was slightly smaller than the foot print of a mammoth! :hmm: :hmm:

 

[pa woods roamer]

Not sure of the year, but back in the nineties I bought 25 lbs of Elephant that was the absolute greatest Powder i`ve used. Clean and fast and won a lot of stuff using it. So, I ordered another 25lbs. Worst garbage on the block!! Don`t know what they did but it sure wasn`t the same. been using Goex ever since.......

 

[arctichomesteader]

Elephant powder was good for making noise and smoke and fouled up barrels, and little else.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Here's one for you..............who remembers

BLACK CANYON POWDER?

 

[Zonie]

I do.
I was at the range and a guy was just finishing up shooting his muzzleloader.
He noticed that I was sitting up my muzzleloaders and came over and asked, "You want some powder?"

Of course I said, "Yes."

It turned out to be 2 7/8 pounds of Black Canyon Powder. Two bottles were unopened.
He said something about him getting it for free and left.

I tried about 5 shots using it and soon realized why he gave it away.
Terrible stuff! When it didn't mis-fire the shots sounded weak and hit 6 inches low at 50 yards.

I kept it anyway and set it on a shelf at home.
4 months later I opened up the previously opened bottle and found that it had turned into one very hard lump. I threw the rest of it away.

 

[buckhorn]

Someone at the range today had a new can of Diamondback - bought it for 10 bucks.
Several people tried it (3f) and said it worked just fine.

 

[boom]

One of our club members had a can of DB, he did not use it on that day, i will ask him on our next shoot how he likes it. :idunno: .