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Please read the new definition under the headline of this section. Thoughts? Comments, quips, dirty jokes. ::
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It appears to me that if you shoot a bolt action gun with a modern peep sight and a super hpx .50 killumgooder bullet you are a modern ML hunter....but if you use a sidelock with the same bullet and sights you are a traditional hunter.
I will refrain from sharing my opinions on this...logic often speaks for itself.
I will refrain from sharing my opinions on this...logic often speaks for itself.
Guest
DEFINITION
A Traditional Muzzleloader shares common design features with weapons made prior to the 20th century.
The weapon is constructed of materials available prior to the 20th century. (the use of power tools, modern bedding materials or other unseen parts, are expectable.)
The load consists of materials available prior to the 20th century. All loading is done through the front of the barrel.
TG says: "a super hpx .50 killumgooder bullet you are a modern ML hunter....but if you use a sidelock with the same bullet and sights you are a traditional hunter."
Hey tg, the definition clearly says: "The load consists of materials available prior to the 20th century." This clearly eliminate the killemgooder bullet, sabots, Power/Blackbelts, pellet fuel, faux powder, etc.
What are you groooooooooooooaning about now! :huh: :youcrazy: :youcrazy:
A Traditional Muzzleloader shares common design features with weapons made prior to the 20th century.
The weapon is constructed of materials available prior to the 20th century. (the use of power tools, modern bedding materials or other unseen parts, are expectable.)
The load consists of materials available prior to the 20th century. All loading is done through the front of the barrel.
TG says: "a super hpx .50 killumgooder bullet you are a modern ML hunter....but if you use a sidelock with the same bullet and sights you are a traditional hunter."
Hey tg, the definition clearly says: "The load consists of materials available prior to the 20th century." This clearly eliminate the killemgooder bullet, sabots, Power/Blackbelts, pellet fuel, faux powder, etc.
What are you groooooooooooooaning about now! :huh: :youcrazy: :youcrazy:
(the use of power tools, modern bedding materials or other unseen parts, are expectable.)
Good job, good initiative on your part...I think it'll help clarify things a little better.
Do I assume correctly the reference to unseen parts lets in my TC Hawken with it's coil mainspring?
Or do I need to start shopping for a new forum?
Good job, good initiative on your part...I think it'll help clarify things a little better.
Do I assume correctly the reference to unseen parts lets in my TC Hawken with it's coil mainspring?
Or do I need to start shopping for a new forum?
Guest
Personally, I feel that rifles with coil springs follow the 'flavour' of being Traditional, as long as they ahve open iron sights, and shoot patched round balls. The makers went to coil springs to cheapen manufacturing costs and speed up (cost cutting) the inletting process.
: Although they may have coil springs, they still have outside hammers, iron sights and shoot round balls.
: My personal thoughts on this also would elimniate ANY slugs, as they were rare on the frontier, as ctg. guns were already prevailent by the time elongated bullets were being used in ML guns. As well, the picket bullets being used with cloth patches, had to be loaded with a bullet starter to keep them pointed concentric to the bore. The starters were fitted to the muzzle of the barrel and guns of this nature were used mainly for target shooting, not as hunting rifles. Now apparently, Ned Roberts himself hunted with this sort of bullet, a "stubbed picket", in his .44 cal. William Reade Double rifle however this was long after the heyday of the muzzleloading 'period', but happened when ctg. guns were in common use.
: At one time, I would have 'allowed' 'PROPERLY DESIGNED ORIGINAL-TYPE SLUGS", but the rules pushers woud have those extended to grooved lubed bullets or plastic jackets in no time.
: Although they may have coil springs, they still have outside hammers, iron sights and shoot round balls.
: My personal thoughts on this also would elimniate ANY slugs, as they were rare on the frontier, as ctg. guns were already prevailent by the time elongated bullets were being used in ML guns. As well, the picket bullets being used with cloth patches, had to be loaded with a bullet starter to keep them pointed concentric to the bore. The starters were fitted to the muzzle of the barrel and guns of this nature were used mainly for target shooting, not as hunting rifles. Now apparently, Ned Roberts himself hunted with this sort of bullet, a "stubbed picket", in his .44 cal. William Reade Double rifle however this was long after the heyday of the muzzleloading 'period', but happened when ctg. guns were in common use.
: At one time, I would have 'allowed' 'PROPERLY DESIGNED ORIGINAL-TYPE SLUGS", but the rules pushers woud have those extended to grooved lubed bullets or plastic jackets in no time.
Huntinfool
45 Cal.
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Sounds reasonable to me. I think it's a good thing like the definitions said we will never be able to please everyone. But I believe we're making a good stab at it.
Hey Roundball the way I read it you're in good shape besides where ya gonna find a better bunch of idio... uh uh uh guys! LOL! :thumbsup:
Chuck
Hey Roundball the way I read it you're in good shape besides where ya gonna find a better bunch of idio... uh uh uh guys! LOL! :thumbsup:
Chuck
Yes.
Since this is primarily a "hunting" forum, I assume that's where the emphasis will be placed on the posts here.
Example:
If you went hunting and took a deer you are proud of, that should be the gist of your post. Nobody will know if your gun had a coil spring or if you used Pyrodex, unless you go out of your way to mention it. Hell, you could even slip a rubber recoil pad on it for all I care - just keep it to yourself. :winking:
We didn't create these forums to police what our members do. We're here to share as much information as possible and have some fun.
eace:
Excellent point.
We don't want to force someone into the "Modern" forum just because of an unseen spring. Nor do we want to create a forum just for guns with coil springs.
This is where tolerance and understanding come in. The fact that we are only breaking this into two categories means we will all have to compromise to a certain degree.
I'm confident that our members have the patience and understanding to make this work.
Before people start listing every possible exception to the definitions, let me nip this in the bud...
We are not going to create a separate Forum for a shooter that used a "Traditional" rifle in every respect, except that he used something that can be used in either category.
Life is full of compromises. The way we have divided Modern vs Traditional is one of them.eace:
If, on the other hand, we can not make this work, there's a simple solution. We have only one hunting category shared by all. That way, people can't object to anything posted and the Moderators job just got a lot easier. :winking:
We are not going to create a separate Forum for a shooter that used a "Traditional" rifle in every respect, except that he used something that can be used in either category.
Life is full of compromises. The way we have divided Modern vs Traditional is one of them.
eace:If, on the other hand, we can not make this work, there's a simple solution. We have only one hunting category shared by all. That way, people can't object to anything posted and the Moderators job just got a lot easier. :winking:
It's strictly "don't ask, don't tell" here, boys. As long as you don't post a banner that says "Coil Springs Rule" and start expounding on how we're all saps for having flat springs you can stay. :haha:
If you shoot a gozillion point buck and post the story and picture here, we won't even quiz you on whether you burned Pyrodex or honest powder if you don't bring it up. :winking:
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE lets just get back to the lying and boasting without this bickering about the mechanics of it all. If you need historically correct, take it over to the Treking or Reenacting Sections. We're here to hunt. Shot placement isn't dependent on projectile shape, stock material or propellent composition.
The only time you need concern yourself about the equipment is when you ask an equipment related question or post an equipment related statement. THEN you should try to categorize it between traditional vs. modern; and even then I'll let you get away with whole gobs of transgressions.
Well said. :applause:
That's the danger of doing this at work. I leave the screen up in the middle of a post and then get involved elsewhere, and seven posts get on before I get back and finish my thought and submit it.
The "bickering" wasn't from you. There's three other threads and a few PM's involved.
So, anybody seeing any velvet covered gems yet? I'm still seeing spotted fawns - never so many so late in the season.
The "bickering" wasn't from you. There's three other threads and a few PM's involved.
So, anybody seeing any velvet covered gems yet? I'm still seeing spotted fawns - never so many so late in the season.
Saw a 3 pt. (western count) and a forked horn in velvet where we were living before we moved here about 5 weeks ago. Haven't seen any bucks around here yet, just does, and lots of Wild Turkeys. No, not the kind in a bottle. ::
Guest
Stumpy asks:"So, anybody seeing any velvet covered gems yet? I'm still seeing spotted fawns - never so many so late in the season."
Yup, THREE behind the house that will make Boone and Crocket at LEAST. Or give new meaning to "grilled" venison.
Four line highway next to the woods don'chaknow! :cry: :cry: :cry:
Yup, THREE behind the house that will make Boone and Crocket at LEAST. Or give new meaning to "grilled" venison.
Four line highway next to the woods don'chaknow! :cry: :cry: :cry:
Guest
tg:
Yer shorts is too tight. :relax:
Chill, take a good humored joke, I really, really, like the traditional stuff, and you. ::
Yer shorts is too tight. :relax:
Chill, take a good humored joke, I really, really, like the traditional stuff, and you. ::
