New Flintlock Hunter Here

[Briarhunter]

Hello - my first post.

I picked up a Conneticut Valley Arms, Mountain Rifle in .54 cal.

I took it apart, cleaned it up and shot it yesterday. It has a browned barrel and furniture and a very low serial number. Deos anyone have any information on the rifle?

It shoots very well at 50 yards touching every shot. At 80 yards it spreads out to at least 6 inches. I use 4F to prime and 2F in barrel.

It did not go bang(4 clicks) until I primed the heck out of the pan (almost full). Does the primer powder have to touch the touch hole? I read not to let the primer charge near the touch hole. After 8 shots it seemed to go bang more often even getting three in a row with the pan loaded. I started to pick out the touch hole every shot and brushed the pan. Seemed to help. The touch hole looked to be set back a few millimeters from the pan is this the correct position?

Thanks for any input.

Dave

 

[Rifleman1776]

A close up pic, in focus, of the lock showing the touch hole would help get your question answered. A part answer: primer does not need to be touching but I'm sure most of us prime with right up to the hole. And, using your photo software, reduce the file size of your pics to avoid them being oversized when posted.

 

[Crewdawg445]

I can vouch for one of my rifles... upon enleting for a new lock, I found the pan wasn't in the ideal location to the touch hole that I would have preferred. However, I replaced the vent liner with an upgraded RMC unit and also prime as Rifleman1776 mentioned. Haven't had a single issue with ignition thus far. Have you tried enlarging the vent liner? Also try pricking the main charge with a toothpick or something similar after priming the pan. Rock locks are a work of art and will require some fiddling, but once you get it right you'll be in love!

 

[hanshi]

Welcome to the forum; and yes, a better pic will help.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Once you try the vent picking thing and you're still getting slow ignition you might open up your vent hole some. Go slowly though, going by wire gauge bit number 1 at a time rather than English sizes (1/16, 5/64, 3/32 etc.) Those are too coarse of an increase.

You ought to look where the sparks are hitting in the pan too. Some locks like the bevel up, and some like it down. You might have to alter the geometry of the lock (bend the cock or the frizzen) to re-direct the sparks. I'd try the bevel and leather holder thing first before I started bending stuff though, as, most locks are pretty good when they come from the factories (with some exceptions).

Also remember, that the bigger the vent hole the more likely powder is to trickle out of it, and, the more gas will discharge through it upon ignition, decreasing velocity. Because of that, flinters are generally between 5-10% slower than cap guns for the same powder charge. Pressure is reduced too, so you'll have to increase your charges a bit more as you open up your vent liner to get the same velocities. That won't materially change your pressures enough to worry about though, so long as you aren't at really stupid load weights to begin with, like 400 grains in a 50 cal. :shocked2:

 

[Briarhunter]

Thank you for all the replies, I placed a pic of pan and

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo143/2009ollie2010/imagejpg3.jpg

 

[Briarhunter]

 

[tenngun]

Hard to tell in the photo, but it looks like it is a little low. For best performance the center line of the hole should be on center with the pan, so if you were looking at the side of the pan level on it would look like 1/2 a hole above the top of the pan.
I found a lot of the old cva locks to be a little weak and used to place a small shim at the v of the spring but you have to be careful or you will bust the spring.
Cvas got a lot of bad rap in the old days but I have seen them shoot very well...and you have a gun you should be proud of

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm also looking at how deep the lock plate is inlet in the stock. The plate should be flush with the wood of the stock.

Let's start with a hearty welcome to learning the art of shooting flint lock rifles. Your CVA is a good rifle to learn with. And it seems as if you are learning quite a bit already.

To keep a flint lock working flawlessly takes some maintenance while shooting. This means wiping the pan and the flint after each shot to take off the fouling that will cover those parts.

From your description, you are shooting black powder and not any substitute. Your loading procedure should address the fouling that builds up for each shot. Many of us will run a damp with solvent patch up and down the barrel. The jag and patch should be loose enough to ride over the fouling and bunch up to pull the fouling out when you draw the patch up the barrel. Fouling can build up in the touch hole, so picking the touch hole is a good practice.

Load your powder, dampen the patch with some lubricant. The lubricant can be as simple as spit which works good for target shooting to exotic oils such a mink oil or Ballistol. Yes, use a pick to make sure the touch hole is open.
Fill the pan so that powder is up to the touch hole but not covering it. Its the heat from the flash that sets off the main charge and a clear path from the pan to chamber is needed.

Your touch hole should be 1/16" in diameter. You might want to cone the entry a little bit. That seems to help in igniting the main charge.

When you go shooting the next time, keep telling yourself that this is and art. Learning to make your gun perform is a beautiful thing.

Back to the lock. When installing the lock after cleaning, the lock bolts should only be tightened to the point of being snug. over tightening can cause the lock internals to drag on the wood in the inlet and adversely affect the performance of your lock.

How's the spark? Have you learned how to knap your flint to keep a sharp edge and make lots of sparks?

 

[Crewdawg445]

I'm also curious as to what the condition of the frizzen might be. Do you notice amber colored sparks or white? Do you get a decent amount of sparks or a little? You also said as time went on it seemed to have gotten better with continued use... What type of flint are you using?

 

[Briarhunter]

Yes I noticed the rear of the lock plate is not flush. Would the angle offset the pan alignment I checked and this was not the case. i wonder if it was a kit? The rifle has a lot of "patina" ie. surface rust for a modern replica type flintlock rifle too.

Fit and finish at this point in my very liited experience with flintlocks is secondary to secure reliable function for me. I was surprised and happy the rifle hits where I point it.

I am learning this game has many more levels than cycling in a bullet and I think that is something I want to pursue.

I did buy a small brass hammer to tap the end of the flint i was shown to stick my thumb under the flint and tap the end very lightly, I tried that at the range and broke off a chunk! I evened it out and now have a stubby flint and probably have to adjust it.

I have no idea what type of flint came with the rifle, and I am not sure how the spark sold look as it hits the frizzen. I practiced with it and even with a few grains of 2F down the barrel and it always went off.

Will the fact it was 17 degrees out make a difference on ignition?



Thank you for the guidance and I will keep tinkering until I get it right. The pan could be ground slightly to align exactly but wuld widen the end near the touch hole dont know if this is a problem because powder will fall out when carried in field?

 

[Briarhunter]

I will say the frizzen and flint do not make what I would consider a lot of spark when dry fired, I do get alittle spark not sure if this could be the problem.

 

[swathdiver]

The first year of the Big Bore Fifty-Four Mountain Rifles was 1979. However, the .54 in Flintlock wasn't offered until at least the following year and then only in kit form if my memory of the 1981 catalog is correct.

The barrel has 1:66 rifling and you can get a new lock, lock parts, even a new flint barrel from Deer Creek. L&R makes a replacement lock of much better quality. RMC makes a stainless touch hole liner that I believe is slightly larger. I think the stock lock likes 5/8" square flints.

I know that gun! Was looking at it for months on GB. I bought another from that guy and the barrel was totally pitted, junk.

 

[Briarhunter]

Guess I got lucky, After I cleaned out the rust from the barrel with about 12 patches I ran it over to Dixons Muzzleloader shop in PA. He helped tune the lock and checked the barrel and told me the rifling was sharp and had minor pitting in two locations that would not affect the accuracy. He told me to shoot it a bunch.

I am using leftover Goex from a friend but picked up a new plastic container of 2F while at Dixon's. Have not tried to newer powder the old stuff could be at least 3-5 years old.

To summarize action to take to get better ingnition consistency

- change out touch hole liner
- change out flint and align, knap? correctly to get best spark
- check frizzen condittion, don't know how to do that
- try newer powder in barrel
- potentially change out lock altogether

Number on barrel is 0005XXX and the way this thing shoots when it goes off will not having me change it out.

I don't have a lot of cash so working with what I have will be the best for now if possible. The guy at Dixons was great and did above and beyond of what I could expect a man in business to do for free. Should have gotten flints.

Any other ideas or at least cheap ways to improve ignition?

 

[MacRob46]

The touch hole liner may not be coned on the inside leading to lag time in ignition. I think most nowadays are coned. The pan looks very shallow in your photo but if the lock is sparking well you should not need very much primer to set off the main charge. If you are getting limited spark from the frizzen with a sharp flint then you have either a lock, flint relationship problem or possibly a soft frizzen. You have checked that issue when you say that you get limited spark from the frizzen. A properly tuned lock with a hardened frizzen should give a shower of sparks. The fact that the lock is inlet quite deeply, while not real attractive, has nothing to do with your problem as long as there is no noticeable gap between pan and barrel flat. Filling the pan to the top with powder may help with ignition but it will not improve the lock time as the powder has to burn down to the touch hole if the priming charge covers it. A new lock will probably solve your problem. Excellent accuracy at 50 yards from what I see in your photo and perfect for hunting. CVA sold a lot of these guns in kit form and you could have one of those. Their QC on the factory built stuff was not all that good either so it cold go either way. Keep working on it. I noted that you say there is a gap between pan and barrel and that should be fixed, if for no other reason than to keep powder from falling into the lock mortise where it could accidentally ignite causing a big problem.

 

[don hepler]

Yes, a simple way to improve ignition is to keep things clean and dry. Keep a clean dry rag, handy, and wipe the flint, the frizzen, and the pan clean, after ever shot. Keep the flint tight. A loose flint will chatter down the frizzen. Maintain the optimal angle of the flint, in relation to striking the frizzen. Think of shaving with a straight razor. What angle would it have to be, to cut cleanly. Poke a couple grains of powder in the touch hole, then fill the pan up close to, but not over the touch hole. Keep the flint sharp. A dull flint can not shave metal. Either learn to knap a flint, or sharpen with a diamond file, or replace them.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Wonderful advice from allot of the guys. My experience with the production rifle locks has been... well, not so fun. A properly made lock will make enjoying this hobby enjoyable! I fiddled with numerous of my production rifle locks till frustration set in. Learned allot but wasn't getting reliable ignition. I turned to L&R lock company and through emails and phone calls decided to replace the problem child. After doing so, I was blown away with the results. Rifles ignition is extremely fast with no noticeable delay whatsoever. There are numerous things that can be done with your stock lock, that's were the fun and learning comes from. Yet, nothing you do will rival what a properly built lock can and will do for your rifle. I've replaced two other production locks with L&R products and couldn't be happier with the money spent. Worth every penny IMO, makes for a much more reliable hunting experience as well! Here are a few pics of the rifle I'll never sell! First test subject and one heck of a performer. Just a little old Traditions hawken woodsman in .50 cal. I'd choose this rifle over most in my safe just because what I went through to get her at 100%. Made it all worth the efforts!

 

[Briarhunter]

Thanks agian to all I really do appreciate people sharing their knowledge and will save me a lot of heartache. I have attached a vid of the ignition below.

Looks like an L&R lock in in my future when I can save up enough, they do make a drop in for this muzzy I checked and it is almost as much as paid for the rifle but the rifle is really about the lock and barrel I guess.
http://vid370.photobucket.com/albums/oo143/2009ollie2010/IMG_4051.mp4
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo143/2009ollie2010/210d733e-e9bc-440a-8491-f418adf5cc84.jpg
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo143/2009ollie2010/Muzz3-1.jpg

 

[MacRob46]

The video shows a fair amount of spark, enough, as long as it is getting to the priming charge, to give sure ignition. It is not optimal though and I think that is some of your problem. The second picture shows the previously mentioned offset of the touch hole liner which does need attention. The touch hole should be centered on the pan and about level with the top of the pan. I don't think you have that, from the photo. The L&R lock may solve that, it depends on the location of the pan once installed. Buy the lock with the understanding that if it does not center on the touch hole that you can send it back.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Very weak spark for sure. Looks like you have a number of issue I can see. Cock geometry looks way off IMO, seems as if it's slamming the flint near the middle or below the frizzen which won't yield a full scrape of the flint on the frizzen. Also could be due to the cock geometry, but your flint looks very blunt rather than being sharp as it should. Here is what I would try... heat the cock in the middle, your aim is to "bend it" ever so slightly. What you want to accomplish is: 1. Placing the flint at the correct angle were it'll contact the frizzen and scrape rather than slam or dig into it. 2. You will actually raise the striking point higher, about 3/4 of the way up giving you a longer flint/ frizzen contact time. I would try bending the cock as I mentioned and try a new hand knapped English flint and see what results you get, certainly will improve things. Also your frizzen may be a little soft which isn't uncommon with these locks... you can re-harden it, but I wouldn't mess with it since a new lock will be more productive of your time.