new for me, colt style revolver!!

[duke21]

i had a real cutie follow me home from the auction the other day. it is an CVA brass framed colt 1860 in 36cal. i am trying to find out who made it, and where i can get a manual for it. worst thing about it so far, is that it is missing the front site. i am considering making my own, but need a rough idea of the shape and the height above the barrel. the gun has several stampings. on the barrel it says "connecticut valley arms-Made In Italy"also "ASM-black powder only-made in italy, 36cal.

on the frame in front of the trigger are several stampings, one looks like a large capital "A", , another PN with a circled star above it,another looks like BI in a box, then some kinda crest of arms with a crown above it. my 36 lyman remington has a lot of the same markings, possibly made by the same folks?

anyhow, i have never had a colt style before, and i think this one will clean up real nice. any idea what a used one should be worth. it has not been abused. also, i typically load my remington with about 20grain of fffg goex, i dont see any reason this gun cant handle that , do you?

any feedback is appreicated.

thanks,

duke21

 

[mykeal]

it is missing the front site. i am considering making my own, but need a rough idea of the shape and the height above the barrel.

The sight is brass, in the shape of a dorsal fin. I'll try to get a height and picture later today.

the gun has several stampings. on the barrel it says "connecticut valley arms-Made In Italy"also "ASM-black powder only-made in italy, 36cal.

ASM stands for Armi San Marco, an Italian manufacturer. They are no longer in business. They were acquired by American Western Arms and ceased production in 2000.

on the frame in front of the trigger are several stampings, one looks like a large capital "A", , another PN with a circled star above it,another looks like BI in a box, then some kinda crest of arms with a crown above it.

The capital A is ASM's manufacturer's stamp. The PN and coat of arms stamps are the proof house marks placed on all Italian made black powder firearms, regardless of manufacturer. The BI in a box is a code for the year of manufacture; BI means 1997.

any idea what a used one should be worth. it has not been abused.

The Fifth Edition (2007) of the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms lists the value of a 100% condition gun as $195. Used but not abused would probably be worth about $150. Blue book values are a guide; actual prices can and do vary considerably in either direction.

also, i typically load my remington with about 20grain of fffg goex, i dont see any reason this gun cant handle that , do you?

20 gr fffg real black with a .454 round ball and a lubed overpowder wad would be the most I would use in a brass framed .44 cal Colt. It will probably hold a little more than 30 gr, but that would be abusive and if done repeatedly, the recoil shield and frame would eventually be damaged. Develop a load between 15 and 20 grains and your grandchildren will be able to use your gun in their dotage.

 

[duke21]

thanks for the informative feedback. even though i wish it were a steel frame, like my remmy, it is not. It is a 36cal which hopefully i can share the same charges and balls with the remmy. i am getting ready to clean her up hopefully tonight, then do some plinking without the front sight.

thanks for all your help!!

sincerely,

duke21

 

[mykeal]

Here's the front sight configuration on my two 1860s; the top one is a Pietta, the bottom one is a Euroarms.

The Pietta sight is 0.500" long and 0.130" high (above the barrel) at the top.

The Euroarms sight is 0.470" long and 0.150" high.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:v Mykeal---which of these do you think is the better made? As you already know I have a sore tooth re: Pietta, based upon my bad experiences. I have seen a few repro's made by Euroarms and found them to be well done and functional w/o needing a re-build. :hmm:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Does your Colt have a rebated frame and stepped cylinder? If not you've probably got an 1861 Colt Navy.

 

[mykeal]

:v Mykeal---which of these do you think is the better made? As you already know I have a sore tooth re: Pietta, based upon my bad experiences. I have seen a few repro's made by Euroarms and found them to be well done and functional w/o needing a re-build. :hmm:

Uberti.

Seriously, though, it's about a tossup. Both are nice guns; I shoot the Pietta fairly regularly just because I've had it longer and it's more familiar to me.

Both function flawlessly. The fit is better on the Pietta and the finish is better on the Euroarms, but the differences are pretty minor. I can't say anything about accuracy as I've never shot them back to back.

I should mention that I disassemble every new (to me) gun I get for a good thorough clean and polish before using it, and that tends to weed out the bad stuff. Unfortunately my notes on the Pietta did not survive to today (I bought it new in 1982) but I don't recall anything unusual; the Euroarms I bought used in 2005 and it was in excellent used condition.

That's about it.

 

[duke21]

there is a semi-circle cut out on the right side of the frame to allow cap installation. and the cylinder is not stepped and it is a 6 shot with 5 5/8" barrel.

does this clear things up anymore?

mykeal , is the front site situation a choice between the two you showed?

thanks,

duke21

 

[mykeal]

The 1860 Army and the 1861 Navy look very similar; Russ's question is to be sure about which you have. The .36 cal suggests it's actually an 1861 Navy, as the 1860 Army was a .44 cal gun. Also, the Blue Book says CVA did not market the 1860 Army in a brass frame, but 1861 Navy was marketed in both brass and steel frames and both .36 and .44 cal. Finally, the 1860 had an 8" barrel and the standard 1861 Navy had a 7 1/2" barrel, but the Navy was also sold in a Sheriff's Model configuration with a .36 cal 5 1/2" barrel. Your description of the cylinder pretty much seals the deal; the smooth cylinder was an 1861 Navy feature.

As far as the front sight goes, the Pietta (top) version is closer to the original Colt sight, although any attempt at authenticity is thwarted by the brass frame. Other than that, it's a personal preference.

You mentioned looking for a manual; I don't believe manuals were provided with those CVA revolvers. CVA did provide a very generic booklet about shooting black powder, but it applied to almost every gun they ever sold, so it would be of little use.

 

[duke21]

kinda sounds like the sheriff model of the 1861 navy revolver. now to clarify, the cylinder is not stepped in any way, but does have flutes between the bores. also, there is no engraved "navy" scence on the cylinder either.

thinking about making mine own front site. off course i could probably buy brass to make one, but i should have quite a bit of mild steel i could fit to size, or another thought came to mine was to shape a copper penny to fit. i think that would be kinda nostalgic ??

any thoughts are appreciated.

duke21

 

[duke21]

i was hoping for some kind of feedback, positive or negative on my ideas on the front site. looks like i will just wing it!!!

thanks,

duke21

 

[mykeal]

Well, if it was me, I'd install a sight that would help me shoot the gun better, which would be a dark metal (blued or black oxide) blade in the shape of a right triangle with the short vertical leg toward the rear, kind of like the Euroarms sight above. After all, on that gun, authenticity is not an option, so make it functional. JMHO

 

[duke21]

thanks mykeal,

thats a nice short, sweet, answer. i am really flipping the coin on this one, but i will be making some type of sight to put on it tonight with some luck. the only real regret i have about the triangular one is the site catching on my holster coming in and out.

thanks again,

duke21

 

[mykeal]

If quick draw is an issue, then the triangle is not an option. If you're just concerned about normal draw, that's a issue solved by learning the proper technique for your gun (with the triangle installed) and holster combination.

 

[duke21]

well, i finally decided i liked the look of the brass site better, so i made one myself, kinda a composite of the two mykeal pictured on here. i was going to solder the site on, but someone said i would ruin the bluing existing on the barrel. they suggested a press fit with locktite , or using epoxy glue. i guess i am more leary of the glue than the solder , if i every have to take it back out, the solder can be reheated and site slid out. i havent had much luck removing epoxied items.

any thoughts after you get done laughing at me.

duke21

 

[mykeal]

Solder won't ruin the bluing, assuming you are fairly good with a torch and use the solder sparingly. Both the gun barrel and the sight have to be hot, and you only need it hot enough to melt the solder, so don't overdo it. Also, make sure the parts are degreased.

JBWeld is the glue you want, if you feel more comfortable with that than with your soldering skills.