I asked green Mountain and they said no "Wonder Lube" or "Bore Butter" the lady I talked with couldn't tell me why. Can anybody tell me why they say no wonder lube or bore butter. A dealer said it was only because some people didn't know how to clean a barrel and there was actually nothing wrong with these products, he told me to use them to help season barrel. I don't want to mess up anew barrel, so any advice would be great. Any help would be appriciated.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
New Green Mountain barrel question
- Thread starter RustyC
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
The first red flag should be "season the barrel" no product will.
I imagine GM was referring to rust protection after cleaning, which neither Bore Butter or Wonder Lube will not offer.
I imagine GM was referring to rust protection after cleaning, which neither Bore Butter or Wonder Lube will not offer.
I couldn't tell you. I have used them. Not the best but not the worst either and it works as far as a lube goes. I have been told that it is impossible to "season" a BP barrel because it's steel not cast. I don't know because I don't know metallurgy. Are you thinking of seasoning a new barrel or what?
galamb
58 Cal.
I use ox-yoke/wonder lube "shooting" patches, but don't use wonder lube for cleaning/protection in all my barrels, including my GM with no ill effects.
I should have explained myself better thank you for your responses. They said you shouldn't use them period, but I use bore butter to lube patches, and to wipe barrel inside after cleaning. They said use good oil in barrel, and they recommended lard or something like it for lube on patches. I always just ran a patch with bore butter down barrel after cleaning it, they said no.
May not get in the nooks and crannies of the lands and grooves, or the edges where breech plug butts up to the barrel.
Have to agree with "galamb" on what he said, too.
Overall, the best thing to do is clean the barrel very well after shooting and oil it up well too. Don't over think it and you'll be fine!
galamb
58 Cal.
I get it - they make the barrels and make recommendations based on many factors - safety and their warranty are probably foremost.
GM also "recommends" shooting a ball .005" below bore size for hunting and "bore size" for target - which would be .495/hunting and .500/target in their 50 cal barrels as an example (why not .490 which probably well over half of all 50 cal shooters use???).
They also specify to use nothing but 2F/Pyrodex RS or Select "only" powder in their 50 cal and above and 3F/Pyrodex P "only" in 45 cal and below AND they are to be used for "Round Ball only in 45 cal and below" (so a REAL, Ball-ete or other conical would be going against their recommendation in the smaller bores).
I put their no wonder lube/bore butter (which they specifically state "Do not use miracle lubes or bore seasoning agents on your rifle barrel") in the box with the rest of their recommendations clearly marked "CYA".
Forgot the last one that never made sense to me. According to GM you can shoot 120 grains max in any of their calibers (according to their own published info) - would you pull the trigger on a 32 cal stuffed with 120 grains of triple F?????
(hmmm or could the fact they and Knight rifles is one in the same and Knight has it's own line of lubes/solvents etc, and wonder lube/bore butter are the "competition"?)
GM also "recommends" shooting a ball .005" below bore size for hunting and "bore size" for target - which would be .495/hunting and .500/target in their 50 cal barrels as an example (why not .490 which probably well over half of all 50 cal shooters use???).
They also specify to use nothing but 2F/Pyrodex RS or Select "only" powder in their 50 cal and above and 3F/Pyrodex P "only" in 45 cal and below AND they are to be used for "Round Ball only in 45 cal and below" (so a REAL, Ball-ete or other conical would be going against their recommendation in the smaller bores).
I put their no wonder lube/bore butter (which they specifically state "Do not use miracle lubes or bore seasoning agents on your rifle barrel") in the box with the rest of their recommendations clearly marked "CYA".
Forgot the last one that never made sense to me. According to GM you can shoot 120 grains max in any of their calibers (according to their own published info) - would you pull the trigger on a 32 cal stuffed with 120 grains of triple F?????
(hmmm or could the fact they and Knight rifles is one in the same and Knight has it's own line of lubes/solvents etc, and wonder lube/bore butter are the "competition"?)
I'd do it, but it wouldn't do any good but to waste powder, LOL. Most would burn outside the barrel. Muzzleloaders are a different animal.....you're not trying to explode the beast (you're shooting at: target/animal) or drop it DRT (Dead Right There), but to shoot it and be able to track it down. I've shot my T/C (w/Pyrodex years ago) at last light and realized I was using too much powder, watching it burn well past the barrel...
I've hunted Ontario (absolutely beautiful country!!) with my flintlock and only a charge of 80 grains in a .50 cal for your big black bear. You'll be fine!
Flint
PS-Hope this made sense :idunno:
Their dislike for several commercial patch lubes sounds like a bunch of hooie to me.
IMO, there is nothing wrong with either of these products for lubing patches or greasing elongated bullets.
None of them are worth a darn for actually protecting a cleaned guns bores though.
Big companies get their products returned to them all the time and when they do, the product is always damaged.
They ask the owner what they used and get answers like "Bore Butter" so rather than saying, "Do not use products like this to protect the barrel.", it's easier to just say, "Do not use these products."
IMO, there is nothing wrong with either of these products for lubing patches or greasing elongated bullets.
None of them are worth a darn for actually protecting a cleaned guns bores though.
Big companies get their products returned to them all the time and when they do, the product is always damaged.
They ask the owner what they used and get answers like "Bore Butter" so rather than saying, "Do not use products like this to protect the barrel.", it's easier to just say, "Do not use these products."
I used it years ago as directed. I also wiped the barrel with it. I do believe it helps as in modestly or better than nothing, why not. But a good oil would do better. I also might add I am in a very dry low humidity climate too.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 9,335
- Reaction score
- 4,513
Oiling a bore is a good idea if you make sure and get all the water out first which some folks fail to do and insist there bores are perfect.
Giving them a look with a good bore scope usually changes their minds.
Water clean , dry patch, water displacing oil, Hoppes bore solvent or alcohol patch and then gun
oil.
Gunzilla is a new product I have been experimenting with an am very impressed with how well it cleans up BP fouling. Have been testing it in conjunction with my standard water cleaning and am about convinced I don't need the water any more. There is no water or petroleum in it. Not quite there yet in trusting it completely but leaning that way as time an trials keep progressing.
Muzzle loader barrels with some pitting can still look pretty shiny to the naked eye and shoot well because of the cloth patch that overcomes a lot of bore negatives but I have seen precious few of them in used gun racks that don't have a pitted bore to one degree or another and I think a good share of that is from oiling over water before the land corners are dry. Mike D.
Giving them a look with a good bore scope usually changes their minds.
Water clean , dry patch, water displacing oil, Hoppes bore solvent or alcohol patch and then gun
oil.
Gunzilla is a new product I have been experimenting with an am very impressed with how well it cleans up BP fouling. Have been testing it in conjunction with my standard water cleaning and am about convinced I don't need the water any more. There is no water or petroleum in it. Not quite there yet in trusting it completely but leaning that way as time an trials keep progressing.
Muzzle loader barrels with some pitting can still look pretty shiny to the naked eye and shoot well because of the cloth patch that overcomes a lot of bore negatives but I have seen precious few of them in used gun racks that don't have a pitted bore to one degree or another and I think a good share of that is from oiling over water before the land corners are dry. Mike D.
Patocazador
54 Cal.
If Bore Butter is the competition, then it may be the reason for their warning. CVA recommends Power Belts for bullets because they sell them.
I don't use Bore Butter except occasionally as a patch lubricant. Barricade is what I use after cleaning. It has performed very well in tests.
I don't use Bore Butter except occasionally as a patch lubricant. Barricade is what I use after cleaning. It has performed very well in tests.
Are you/they saying for target use- to shoot an unpatched ball???
Just curious, as I HAVE a GM T/C replacement .50 cal barrel coming- and target shooting is my planned useage... so very curious.
Finding this thread very interesting as well as timely.
Wes
galamb
58 Cal.
No, not "un-patched" because you still have the groves to contend with so there is some give there with a very thin patch.
I just don't like loading with a "sledge hammer" to get things down the barrel.
I do shoot .005" under bore (.445) in my 45 Rice barrel/.010 wonder lube patch - everything else, including both my GM barrels get .010" below (balls) with .018 pillow tick wonder lube patch.
But I do patch "loose" and am only looking for 2" groups at 50 yards.
(and will admit that I shoot PA conicals out of my 50 cal GM - so don't tell the GM barrel police please :rotf: )
So like I said, I put GM's recommendations where they belong. Because for all they say to do they end with -
"Knight Rifles and Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co. expressly disclaims any and all liability for the following: incidental or consequential damages due to the misuse or altering of these barrels and products; and mishandling (whether accidental or purposeful) of these barrels and products; exceeding the maximum load recommendations; or for rifles on which our products have been installed."
So even if you do it their way you are still wrong if you install a GM barrel on your rifle??
I just don't like loading with a "sledge hammer" to get things down the barrel.
I do shoot .005" under bore (.445) in my 45 Rice barrel/.010 wonder lube patch - everything else, including both my GM barrels get .010" below (balls) with .018 pillow tick wonder lube patch.
But I do patch "loose" and am only looking for 2" groups at 50 yards.
(and will admit that I shoot PA conicals out of my 50 cal GM - so don't tell the GM barrel police please :rotf: )
So like I said, I put GM's recommendations where they belong. Because for all they say to do they end with -
"Knight Rifles and Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co. expressly disclaims any and all liability for the following: incidental or consequential damages due to the misuse or altering of these barrels and products; and mishandling (whether accidental or purposeful) of these barrels and products; exceeding the maximum load recommendations; or for rifles on which our products have been installed."
So even if you do it their way you are still wrong if you install a GM barrel on your rifle??
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Messages
- 20,091
- Reaction score
- 1,023
Wonder lube is owned by Remington and Tompson Center owns bore butter. Why would Green Mountain endorse a competitors product.
Does anyone know what's in Wonder lube paste. all I could find is that all ingredients are food grade.
Muzzleloaders have been around for hundreds of years. The aforementioned products have only been around about 30. For several hundred years people relied on their muzzleloaders without those two products. THINK ABOUT IT!
I bet if I spit in a jar, marketed it as Good Ol’ Spit Patch someone would buy it.
Don’t give up the quest for knowledge in place of convenience.
Does anyone know what's in Wonder lube paste. all I could find is that all ingredients are food grade.
Muzzleloaders have been around for hundreds of years. The aforementioned products have only been around about 30. For several hundred years people relied on their muzzleloaders without those two products. THINK ABOUT IT!
I bet if I spit in a jar, marketed it as Good Ol’ Spit Patch someone would buy it.
Don’t give up the quest for knowledge in place of convenience.
Rat Trapper
62 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,648
- Reaction score
- 7
I never heard that GM recommended Pyrodex? I use either Goex or Triple Seven. Plus I use bore butter for patch lube and conical lube with no problems. I use Knight oil to keep the barrel rust free after cleaning. My use of Knight oil is due to getting a lot of it for free and it works very well.
I use a .490 ball, .18 pillow ticking and have been using bore butter for years as a lube. I shoot 80 grains of Jim Shockey’s Gold 2F G powder. My new barrel is the 32" 1 in 70 twist ICB barrel for the Hawkens, it's supposed to be just for patched round balls and that came from the dealer and GM. They also told me I couldn't use any of my hardware, but I switched my brass thimbles over and the only problem I am having is the ramrod is tight against the retaining spring. I also just got some Lucas oil gun oil, going to try it. I did change to a better nipple with one of the flame throwers, actually been thinking about one of those adapters that use 209 primers instead, anybody tried one of those?
Oh also thank you to everyone for the replies. makes me feel better knowing others have great answers here.
Oh also thank you to everyone for the replies. makes me feel better knowing others have great answers here.
galamb
58 Cal.
Here is the quote from GM's website regarding the powder etc.
"Disclaimer: Green Mountain muzzleloading barrels in .50, .54, and .58 calibers have been designed specifically for use with Black Powder FFg, Pyrodex 'RS', or Pyrodex 'Select' only. The .50 caliber Long Range Hunter 1:28" fast-twist barrels are designed to shoot heavy lead conicals or saboted bullets only and will not shoot a patched round ball. Use Blackpowder FFFg or Pyrodex P for .32, .36, .40 and .45 caliber round ball only. Do not use miracle lubes or bore seasoning agents on your rifle barrel. DO NOT USE SMOKELESS POWDER!!"
"Disclaimer: Green Mountain muzzleloading barrels in .50, .54, and .58 calibers have been designed specifically for use with Black Powder FFg, Pyrodex 'RS', or Pyrodex 'Select' only. The .50 caliber Long Range Hunter 1:28" fast-twist barrels are designed to shoot heavy lead conicals or saboted bullets only and will not shoot a patched round ball. Use Blackpowder FFFg or Pyrodex P for .32, .36, .40 and .45 caliber round ball only. Do not use miracle lubes or bore seasoning agents on your rifle barrel. DO NOT USE SMOKELESS POWDER!!"
Its probably sound advice on their part. The drop in I bought last year was very accurate, but very generous, too. .495s with .018 patches, while not loose, weren't as tight as I would have liked. I started using .498s and .020 patches (no mallet needed to load), and am considering moving up to .500s.
Similar threads
- Locked
