New guy with 1st BP rifle

[Texas275]

New to the forum and the world of muzzle loading, and of course I have questions. I have acquired a Sears .45 Kentucky Long Rifle Kit. It’s still in the box and all the parts are there. I’ve done a little research and found they were made by the Miroku Company in Japan, and they were sold in the early to mid 70s. It is a percussion rifle, and the barrel is marked “Black Powder Only”. I plan on putting it together and seeing how well it will shoot. Who knows, maybe a little hunting if it shoots good enough. If not I think it would be a blast to just target shoot with it. I have never owned a BP rifle, but always wanted one.

So on with the questions:
1.How do I figure out what the barrel twist is?
2.Best size ball/patch/charge combo to start out with?
3.Which power to use old fashioned or a modern?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, Tom

 

[mooman76]

New to the forum and the world of muzzle loading, and of course I have questions. I have acquired a Sears .45 Kentucky Long Rifle Kit. It’s still in the box and all the parts are there. I’ve done a little research and found they were made by the Miroku Company in Japan, and they were sold in the early to mid 70s. It is a percussion rifle, and the barrel is marked “Black Powder Only”. I plan on putting it together and seeing how well it will shoot. Who knows, maybe a little hunting if it shoots good enough. If not I think it would be a blast to just target shoot with it. I have never owned a BP rifle, but always wanted one.

So on with the questions:
1.How do I figure out what the barrel twist is?
2.Best size ball/patch/charge combo to start out with?
3.Which power to use old fashioned or a modern?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, Tom

The twist you can find out by putting your ram rod in with a cleaning jag and a tight fitting patch. Mark the ramrod and the top. of your barrel so you know how much it turns as it goes in. Then it's simple math. If the ramrod goes makes a half turn going in 2' then it's a 1/48 or 1/3 turn, one in 66. Yours is probably 1/66.

Best size to start off with is probubly a 440 ball and about a .015 patch. If it's not very tight then you can try a thicker patch or bigger ball.

Always best to use real BP if you can find it but it kind of hard to find sometimes.

I found a old CVA at a flea market a few years ago. Still in the box and it was sold at Wards and the receipt parked 1974. I got it cheap and got it just for something to play with. Not the best but it still shoots good. Have fun with it. You don't have to buy the best or spend top dollar to have fun.

 

That is an interesting way to gauge twist.

 

[bpd303]

Follow these directions to take the guess work out of the twist rate. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/239243/

 

[Texas275]

Thanks a lot. Great info and now I know how to get started. I haven't bought any of the peripherals yet so I'll have to get me brush to figure out the twist rate.

I've seen in some posts they are told to check the patch after firing. What should you be checking for, what should it look like?

 

That is an interesting way to gauge twist.

That's how it's done. :thumbsup:

How have you been doing it?

 

[mooman76]

Patch should come out basically good enough to use again. It is a trouble shooter. Your patches could come out burned, cut or even shredded. If you're shooting good not a big deal but can help you improve how your gun shoots.

 

[Billnpatti]

That posting by bpd303 really touched my heart. Paul V. was an old friend of mine. He passed away several months ago and I miss him.

For your first load, I'd suggest starting with a .440 round ball with a patch made of pillow ticking or pocket drill. Wash and dry your fabric. If you can get it, I recommend using real black powder. Goex is a good brand and it costs less than most of the others. The best granulation for your rifle will likely be 3f. I'd start with 45 grains and work up by 5 grain increments until you find the charge that gives you the tightest group. Often a good target load will be near the same as your caliber. That means that for a .45 caliber rifle, your most likely best target load will be around 45 grains. Then usually, you will find that your best hunting load will be about 1 1/2 times your caliber which would be somewhere around 65 to 70 grains. Once you get your copy of Dutch Schoultz' accuracy system, you will be able to figure out exactly what your rifle prefers. Each rifle is different so you can't necessarily go by what your buddy's .45 rifle likes.

If you can't get real black powder, it is okay to use one of the substitutes if your rifle is a caplock. If you have a flintlock, you must use real black powder because none of the substitutes will work reliably in a flintlock.

If you can find a muzzleloading club in your area, you will most assuredly benefit from becoming a member and letting them help you. But, we are here for you so bring us your questions.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I havent heard anything too good or too bad about Miroku firearms.

Actually Miroku makes and made very good barrels. They currently make barrels for Browning. The old Jap Bess had barrels made by Miroku, and a great many are going strong even today. I saw a 40 year old Jap Bess on Saturday... still banging away.

It's probably a 1:66 twist as it was probably made to compete with the CVA .45 caliber kits of its day. The old rule-of-thumb is that one starts with powder loads equal to the caliber of the rifle..., in your case 45 grains of BP or you could "fudge" it and go up to 50 to start. Then work your way upward for the best accuracy.

In some states there is a minimum load for deer, such as in Maryland, which is 60 grains of BP. So if that's the case in your state, you should be sure to try that load as well.

LD

 

[don hepler]

Miroku, made the Browning A5, after the Belguim guns were discontinued. They are making the new Winchester lever action rifles, and I'm sure they make a lot of other firearms, that I am unfamiliar with. I'd have to say, Miroku is probably one of the top manufacturers of firearms left, in the world today.

The rotation is easy to check with a cleaning jag and tight patch. 1/48 means the ball rotates one time in 48 inches, or one time in 4 feet. Since the barrel is not that long, we measure the rotation in 2 feet. So the ball, or patched ram rod will need to rotate a half turn. A 1 in 66 barrel is a little under one turn in 6 feet, the ball, or ram rod will rotate about 1/3 of a rotation in 2 feet.

 

[bpd303]

I knew that Paul V had passed away. Even though I did not know him personally I always enjoyed his posts & articles. As long as we can still read them he will always be in our hearts & minds. The community has lost a true champion.

 

[ShawneeB]

Welcome. You should have a fine shooting rifle once built.

My 2 cents on Miroku. Miroku also makes Howas, Weatherby Vanguards besides the others mentioned above. They made the Dixie Tn rifle. I have one in 50 cal, balls touch at 50 yards off a rest when I do my part. I also have a suppressed Howa 223 (basically a mauser action and slick) which meets the accuracy standard they claim. Pretty fine barrels and gun makers.

Personally by my experience as a gunsmith, ex firearms mfg, firearms enthusiast since a child (58 now) I have respect for Miroku and never heard a bad word about them.

Japanese know their steel and machine work. US copied there steel, 154CR (knife steel) and trademarks it as their own by changing one alloy slightly. Japanese once copied a Parker shotgun so perfectly they even copied a crack in the receiver.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A lot of good replies to your questions.
Just for emphasis, especially for safety reasons.
You asked:

Which power to use old fashioned or a modern?

The term for "old fashioned" is black powder, real black powder.
"modern" generally means smokless as would be used in a modern gun like 30-06, 12 ga. shotgun, .45 acp. etc. It is definately not the right powder for your ml gun. Do not use.
If you meant one of the black powder "subsitutes" they do work, some not so well, but are safe.
Real black powder is the more traditional and what I prefer. I would rather pull my finger nails out than reccomend a non-traditional subsitute. :wink:

 

[Leatherbark]

I have a feeling that your Sears Miroku Ky rifle is the same as a Miroku Ultra Hi Ky rifle. If it is I do believe a .440 ball may be too big. Seems like it may take a .437 or a .433 possibly. Seems these have a tight bore with 4 groove rifling. So before you commit to a .440 ball you might borrow a few and try them first.

Bob

 

[Texas275]

I checked and it does only have 4 grooves. I don't know any BP shooters so I'll probably pick up a few different ones when the time comes. At least I got something to go by. Just got through polishing the brass and the stock has been stained and is drying as I type.

Turns out it is missing the ramrod. The brass pieces are here but no wood. I am assuming just a hardwood dowel rod is what I need? any guesses on the dia?

 

[bpd303]

Hardwood dowels are not suitable for ramrods...
Here is a good thread regarding them. You can measure the ramrod thimbles for the size. All of my 45s use a 3/8 rod. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/.../post/1308658/hl/ramrod/fromsearch/1/#1308658

 

[greggholmes]

I used a cleaning jag with a patch and a tape measure. i have a T handle on my range rod so i bottomed out the rod at the breach, laid the tape next to the barrel and counted rotations as i withdrew the rod.

my GM 50 is 1-66

 

[Texas275]

Got it no dowel rods. Ill just have to look for a ramrod online.

 

[Swamp Rat]

one very important thing after you shoot is cleaning. maybe the most important, cause if you do it wrong your good group might go to pot the next trip. I started with a $60 bass pro CVA and man that thing could shoot. I cleaned it wrong and let rust get in it and my groups opened up....its diffidently not me.LOL.

 

[kno3mike]

I don't know if this is the correct place to post this, I couldn't find a feedback section. I wanted to give a public thank you to Texas275 (Tom)....I just traded for my first Muzzleloader...A Sears Kentucky Rifle .45 caliber Percussion made by Miroku in Japan...(just like his kit, what are the odds on that)...I asked if he had a manual which he didn't but he did have assembly instructions....so he scanned and sent to me...he also took the time to measure the nipple on his firearm which is the part I need to get mine in working order...I hope to have a shooter soon and not just a wall hanger...Thanks Tom for your help and I appreciate the advice others have posted on this site too.
(not In response to Swamp Rat)I'm still learning how to post too.