New lube.

[oldwolf]

Yes they are.

Fifteenish years ago I tested a bunch of "factory" lubes and various home-brews and did steel plate rust tests (I worked at a sheet metal machining & bending company). I tested on bare steel left outdoors and steel that had been flashed with blackpowder and left outdoors. Sadly those old posts ("Lube Wars") are mostly Photobucket images from scanned photographs (remember those?) and three home PCs ago. I made sure everything I used for my lubes had been known and available in the 18th century - but no promises they were ever used for firearm purposes. The which hazel I got the most questions about - but when added it makes a big difference in a smear qualities as to how well the oil spreads out vs. beading up.

Then I tweeked the components (and methods of mixing and dispensing) I liked for accuracy. I also handed out tins of Moose Snot at various shoots (and mailed some around) to see how it worked with other shooters. Results vary.

I now tend to tear cotton patching into strips and dip it in the Moose Juice and let it dry flat on waxed paper overnight, then repeat. I roll those up and carry them in a deerskin pouch that was saturated with molten beeswax. They keep years if needed. It's also a good powder solvent for cleaning. I have carried small bottles of it for shooting - but that's too complicated (I like simple as I usually shoot in the woods with nothing but the shooting bag). The semi-dried patching is also less messy if you have the ball block loose in a bag or against your clothing.

The wax lube (Moose Snot) is good for wiping a patch across the tin and using. Just enough to fill the weave on the barrel side. Also works well for filling a ball block for hunting but can be messier. The Moose Snot tends to shoot more rounds without cleaning (a good feature in a Seneca Run or biathlon) and the Moose Juice dipped and dried can get reluctant after three or four shots in low humidity. When it does get "catchy" I wipe a spit patch.

I have also found when getting ready to shoot before heading out I wipe the bore with 91% alcohol to get the protectant oils and dust bunnies out and then run a Snot lubed patch down and up twice before loading the rifle. It puts the first cold shot in closer and makes the whole day easier to load and wipe.

Stumpy's Moose Juice

A general purpose blackpowder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using

Castor Oil 3 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated if available) 16 oz.

Hey Stumpy!

Getting ready to mix up some some of your elixir.
I am wanting a patch lube and a between-shot bore wipe.
What is the purpose of the added Water?
I am thinking of omitting that for my first batch.
Thanks!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am wanting a patch lube and a between-shot bore wipe

Searching the forum will find you more patch lubes than you can count. Stick with basics and avoid store bought stuff. Between shot swabbing can be done very effectively with a spit dampened piece of flannel. Key is damp dripping wet will only give you gunky problems.

 

[Carbon 6]

oldwolf said:
I am wanting a patch lube and a between-shot bore wipe

Spit works well for both.

 

[Carbon 6]

That proprietary grease Contains:
Water, Glycerin, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Gluconolactone, Methylparaben, Sodium Hydroxide, Chlorhexidine digluconate.

 

[Robwright]

That proprietary grease Contains:
Water, Glycerin, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Gluconolactone, Methylparaben, Sodium Hydroxide, Chlorhexidine digluconate.

Way too not Period Correct. Spit is so simple...no way it could work.

 

[Carbon 6]

Way too not Period Correct. Spit is so simple...no way it could work.

Well, here's what's in spit.

• Water: 99.5%
• Electrolytes:
  • 2–21 mmol/L sodium (lower than blood plasma)
  • 10–36 mmol/L potassium (higher than plasma)
  • 1.2–2.8 mmol/L calcium (similar to plasma)
  • 0.08–0.5 mmol/L magnesium
  • 5–40 mmol/L chloride (lower than plasma)
  • 25 mmol/L bicarbonate (higher than plasma)
  • 1.4–39 mmol/L phosphate
  • Iodine (mmol/L concentration is usually higher than plasma, but dependent variable according to dietary iodine intake)
• Mucus (mucus in saliva mainly consists of mucopolysaccharides and glycoproteins)
• Antibacterial compounds (thiocyanate, hydrogen peroxide, and secretory immunoglobulin A)
• Epidermal growth factor (EGF)
• Various enzymes; there are three major enzymes found in saliva:
  • α-amylase (EC3.2.1.1), or ptyalin, secreted by the acinar cells of the parotid and submandibular glands, starts the digestion of starch before the food is even swallowed; it has a pH optimum of 7.4
  • Lingual lipase, which is secreted by the acinar cells of the sublingual gland; has a pH optimum around 4.0 so it is not activated until entering the acidic environment of the stomach
  • Kallikrein, an enzyme that proteolytically cleaves high-molecular-weight kininogen to produce bradykinin, which is a vasodilator; it is secreted by the acinar cells of all three major salivary glands
  • Antimicrobial enzymes that kill bacteria
    • Lysozyme
    • Salivary lactoperoxidase
    • Lactoferrin[5]
    • Immunoglobulin A[5]
  • Proline-rich proteins (function in enamel formation, Ca2+-binding, microbe killing and lubrication)[5]
  • Minor enzymes include salivary acid phosphatases A+B, N-acetylmuramoyl-L-alanine amidase, NAD(P)H dehydrogenase (quinone), superoxide dismutase, glutathione transferase, class 3 aldehyde dehydrogenase, glucose-6-phosphate isomerase, and tissue kallikrein (function unknown)[5]
• Cells: possibly as many as 8 million human and 500 million bacterial cells per mL. The presence of bacterial products (small organic acids, amines, and thiols) causes saliva to sometimes exhibit foul odor
• Opiorphin, a pain-killing substance found in human saliva
• Haptocorrin, a protein which binds to Vitamin B12 to protect it against degradation in the stomach, before it binds to intrinsic factor

 

[8 BORE]

Well, here's what's in spit.

• Water: 99.5%
• Electrolytes:
  • 2–21 mmol/L sodium (lower than blood plasma)
  • 10–36 mmol/L potassium (higher than plasma)
  • 1.2–2.8 mmol/L calcium (similar to plasma)
  • 0.08–0.5 mmol/L magnesium
  • 5–40 mmol/L chloride (lower than plasma)
  • 25 mmol/L bicarbonate (higher than plasma)
  • 1.4–39 mmol/L phosphate
  • Iodine (mmol/L concentration is usually higher than plasma, but dependent variable according to dietary iodine intake)
• Mucus (mucus in saliva mainly consists of mucopolysaccharides and glycoproteins)
• Antibacterial compounds (thiocyanate, hydrogen peroxide, and secretory immunoglobulin A)
• Epidermal growth factor (EGF)
• Various enzymes; there are three major enzymes found in saliva:
  • α-amylase (EC3.2.1.1), or ptyalin, secreted by the acinar cells of the parotid and submandibular glands, starts the digestion of starch before the food is even swallowed; it has a pH optimum of 7.4
  • Lingual lipase, which is secreted by the acinar cells of the sublingual gland; has a pH optimum around 4.0 so it is not activated until entering the acidic environment of the stomach
  • Kallikrein, an enzyme that proteolytically cleaves high-molecular-weight kininogen to produce bradykinin, which is a vasodilator; it is secreted by the acinar cells of all three major salivary glands
  • Antimicrobial enzymes that kill bacteria
    • Lysozyme
    • Salivary lactoperoxidase
    • Lactoferrin[5]
    • Immunoglobulin A[5]
  • Proline-rich proteins (function in enamel formation, Ca2+-binding, microbe killing and lubrication)[5]
  • Minor enzymes include salivary acid phosphatases A+B, N-acetylmuramoyl-L-alanine amidase, NAD(P)H dehydrogenase (quinone), superoxide dismutase, glutathione transferase, class 3 aldehyde dehydrogenase, glucose-6-phosphate isomerase, and tissue kallikrein (function unknown)[5]
• Cells: possibly as many as 8 million human and 500 million bacterial cells per mL. The presence of bacterial products (small organic acids, amines, and thiols) causes saliva to sometimes exhibit foul odor
• Opiorphin, a pain-killing substance found in human saliva
• Haptocorrin, a protein which binds to Vitamin B12 to protect it against degradation in the stomach, before it binds to intrinsic factor

Spit is all natural. No petroleum based anything. The above ingredents listed (thanks to Carbon 6) have been used for a long time.

 

[Ames]

And to think I've been throwing it away.....

 

[Stumpkiller]

Hey Stumpy!

Getting ready to mix up some some of your elixir.
I am wanting a patch lube and a between-shot bore wipe.
What is the purpose of the added Water?
I am thinking of omitting that for my first batch.
Thanks!

The water dissolves the soap and rinses off the fouling, as well as dissolving the salts in the fouling & diluting them - as a solvent. As a lube it just wets the fouling to make it more pliable. The 91% iso alcohol dissolves the castor oil -so the whole suspension has everything working together - like Italian Dressing. And likewise must also be shaken when in solution. The which hazel improves how it all smears onto metal rather than just beading up.

When you make dried patching the water and alcohol depart. But by then they have done their jobs of carrying the less volatile components throughout the patching.

When I shoot I just use a spit wipe every fifth shot. Sooner if the fouling is "stiffer" that day.

 

[AZbpBurner]

How does such a dry patch keep powder fouling soft, soft enough to push the next load through the fouling without swabbing occasionally? With an occasional swabbing being not as accurate as swabbing between shots which maintains as more consistent bore condition.
It’s been my experience that without swabbing reloading becomes impossible after a few shots. Even a well greased patch doesn’t carry enough lube to wet the fouling to keep it soft.

The dry patch castor oil patch leaves very little oil residue in the bore, so there's not enough fouling build-up to worry about.
When you slop a 'well greased' patch laden with the tallow/oil/beeswax/crisco or whatever, down your bore, you leave enough grease & goop to attract & hold powder fouling - not an issue with the dry patches.

 

[Pvt.Hardtack]

Over the years I have tried many lubes, beeswax and lanolin, olive oil, olive oil and beeswax, windshield washer stuff, bear grease, the list goes on and on.
Most of this would give me 3 shots average and the next ones had to be pounded down the barrel with one broken rod in the process.

I tried another one I was told about by some older shooters that had much experience in this area.

I've used Hoppes #9 Plus Blackpowder patch lube and cleaner for many years now.
So far the most I've shot was 18-20 shots, No wiping and accuracy was consistent. I could have shot more but I ran out of time.
Spit works great too but I can't seem to workup that much spit that fast so I'll stick with what works for me.

YMMV.........

 

[4065shooter]

Gentlemen, it might be as easy as getting a 1oz. Tin of SPG, heat gently on the stove. Using tweezers start dipping your patches, then lay them on a sheet of wax paper to cool & dry. You should get around 70 treated patches. You'll be able to shoot a match all day without cleaning. The treated patches will keep the fouling soft. Blackpowderspg.com

 

[bigted]

Man I am worn out. Just read this entire thread and other then moose milk of the 7 to 1 water/ballistol mix ... soaked into patch's ... then layed out FLAT to dry, which I intend trying ... the rest seems a little weary.

This aint rocket science folks! Plain ol spit has served for as long as gun powder has been used to propel projectiles wrapped in patch's.

Where are the HC police what with all this talk of products made after the 1870's? Or is this just confined to weapons?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Man I am worn out. Just read this entire thread and other then moose milk of the 7 to 1 water/ballistol mix ... soaked into patch's ... then layed out FLAT to dry, which I intend trying ... the rest seems a little weary.

This aint rocket science folks! Plain ol spit has served for as long as gun powder has been used to propel projectiles wrapped in patch's.

Where are the HC police what with all this talk of products made after the 1870's? Or is this just confined to weapons?

I agree, some here think water carries the plague!
To displace the evil water I use energy, pure heat energy, works every time.
No stinking oil dribbling all over the carpets here, oh, did they have carpets way back then?
Maybe some were so diligent in there chemistry lessons they forgot their basic physics lessons!
You can't whack an expert. Chernobyl, Fukushima, Sellafield and Three mile island!

 

[bigted]

Brit ... I think this lube thing gets mileage because it is a cheap and easy thing to experiment with ... which I get ...

however ... this particular forum (which I like just fine) is all about historical weapons and gear (I thought). I am here to read and learn about how and what the ODG's (OLD DEAD GUYS) did things and equipment used.

The dry patch thing makes sense to me as greasy smelly gear would be messy and hard to keep. I also doubt that a feller would have and keep a rifle, pistol or smooth gun that had greasy sticky slickery stuff in or on to attract dust and insects. To say nothing of being slick to handle and easy to drop and hard to grab in a hurry when needed.

Having said this ... I have no answer for the grease well's on certain rifles for patch lube. Seems to me that in a dusty dirty environment ... that these "wells" would attract dirt n dust in a hurry and be transferred into the bore with every patch greased with this system.

My own paper cartridges for my revolvers have lube on the paper wrapped ball and partially down on the paper below the ball ... and I am very aware of the dust n dirt gathering propensity of this system as well. The reason I keep em protected till I load em in my revolver.

 

[Pvt.Hardtack]

I guess it all depends on how HC one wants to be.
Hunting would work great with a spit patch, less manure to drag around in your pouch.
Living history live fire demonstrations would be a place I'd use a spit patch IF I did those.
I'd bet during an Indian fight or any close battle most rifleman didn't use any patch at all, drop powder, seat the ball, prime and take a shot. I know from personal experience that if I had lived in that era I may have got a couple of shots off but my name would have been added to the long list of unknowns that didn't make it to an old age due to lack of loading fast. Lots of speculation but as much as I prefer Hoppes BP lube I'm sure spit was the go to "lube" after the first shots were fired in anger.
Sorry for the rant.

 

[AlanG]

Spit is certainly one of the best patch lubes- but my shooting involves continuous shooting, typically 60-80 rounds. I sure can't produce enough saliva for that type of shooting- doubt few could.

Brittsmoothy, I think you are overlooking a lot of things.
A lot of people, myself included prefer to clean at the range, hot water not really being a real option to me. Range meaning anything from a formal range to a gravel pit or a clearing in the woods. In reality there are a lot of products that are superior to water for cleanup, but I realize that idea seems to bother people. Personally I prefer using a patch lube which also doubles for final cleanup for convenience. Water cleanup done right, does of course work great, always has and will,but not any better than some other options.

Your method of hot water works fine, but there are regions of the US where steel just handled by mildly sweaty hands will begin to rust in 10 minutes. I've handled unpainted steel handrails where you could see surface rust showing your palm print. You can definitely develop a surface flash rust in such regions of the country. That is a big reason for many of the comments advising the use of tepid water. Many Northern areas of the US can have temperatures that vary from 100 degrees in the Summer to 20 below in the Winter which can add its own set of problems.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Brit ... I think this lube thing gets mileage because it is a cheap and easy thing to experiment with ... which I get ...

however ... this particular forum (which I like just fine) is all about historical weapons and gear (I thought). I am here to read and learn about how and what the ODG's (OLD DEAD GUYS) did things and equipment used.

The dry patch thing makes sense to me as greasy smelly gear would be messy and hard to keep. I also doubt that a feller would have and keep a rifle, pistol or smooth gun that had greasy sticky slickery stuff in or on to attract dust and insects. To say nothing of being slick to handle and easy to drop and hard to grab in a hurry when needed.

Having said this ... I have no answer for the grease well's on certain rifles for patch lube. Seems to me that in a dusty dirty environment ... that these "wells" would attract dirt n dust in a hurry and be transferred into the bore with every patch greased with this system.

My own paper cartridges for my revolvers have lube on the paper wrapped ball and partially down on the paper below the ball ... and I am very aware of the dust n dirt gathering propensity of this system as well. The reason I keep em protected till I load em in my revolver.

Maybe maybe but as you say your self you keep them protected. Why assume our ancestors could not have a small container?

 

[gmkmd]

Anybody out there have any thoughts on Lehigh Valley Lube?
I used to hear it recommended a lot, but I never was certain on whether it was better as a patch lube, a bore cleaner, or between-shots-wiper.
I’d like to hear from those with experience.

 

[45man]

Yeah I also run out of spit. I have drawers full of home made lubes and had store bought too. Lyman lubes failed as did SPG. The best I have ever found is Young Country, keeps fouling soft and I never need to wipe the bore. When a ball gets stiff I just add more Young Country to the next patch without a change in impact. Tests have shown peanut oil or a mix of canola, corn and peanut but I have not tried safflower yet. I still believe a tad of lanolin helps.
I use hot water at home after the bores are clean so water dries fast and the bore is warm when a final lube is used.