Not long ago New Mexico banned the use of scopes for muzzleloader hunting. Seems like a necessary trend with higher success and more demand. I would be all for primative only season in AZ if not an outright ban on scopes during muzzleloader hunts. You guys like this change or should they have made other changes to lower success instead?
New Mexico iron sights regulation.
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Coolhand
Ozark Mt. Daredevil
To be honest I don’t like when the government bans me from doing anything. What dose the law say? No assault muzzleloaders to be used during muzzleloading season? If you don’t want to or don’t like to use a scope and want to hunt traditional then by all means do it. We need everyone we can get this day and age to participate in hunting and the shooting sports. Just my opinion.
IMO, if its listed as a traditional ML hunt only, it should be with open sights and a side hammer. Either RB or conical.
If its a general ML season then I do not understand why restricting scopes matters. Not with the vast majority of ML nowadays being inline. If they are going to go as far as to allow those, they might as well allow scopes.
If its a general ML season then I do not understand why restricting scopes matters. Not with the vast majority of ML nowadays being inline. If they are going to go as far as to allow those, they might as well allow scopes.
I believe that way back when primitive muzzleloading hunting seasons were first conceived that the intent was for the use of traditional style single shot, percussion or flintlock, open iron sighted muzzleloaders. Almost immediately after that concept was made public the modern in-line muzzleloader was invented. As far as I'm concerned, those abominations corrupted muzzleloading seasons all across the nation!
Ooh. You just cannot imagine how much I despise those things!
Muzzleloader hunting seasons should be for traditional style single shot, percussion or flintlock, open iron sighted muzzleloaders !!!
}:~(
Ooh. You just cannot imagine how much I despise those things!
Muzzleloader hunting seasons should be for traditional style single shot, percussion or flintlock, open iron sighted muzzleloaders !!!
}:~(
lots of folks cant see irons anymore... so they should not be able to hunt????
No. Totally unnecessary. Yet one more little move in the overall grand plan to completely and permanently infringe. Don't fall for their "reasonable" and "common sense" justifications. Stand your ground on your inalienable rights. There's already been too much of moving that line in the sand. Let the hunter decide for himself/herself how challenging they want their hunt to be. When it's a matter of regulating how much game is taken, regulate that by how many tags are made available, not by regulating the firearm or accessories used to hunt that game.
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What this actually does is ban older hunters and visually restricted hunters, that need the optics to make a humane kill, from participation in the Muzzle loading season.
EXACTLY
LD
At one time Missouri had a muzzleloader-only season and if you applied for it you were restricted to hunting with one throughout the whole of the firearms season.
Now it's just called alternative method season which includes handguns, muzzleloaders, air rifles, and even atlatles.
The reasoning behind some of this is we just have too many deer here.
I can take 5 deer total in the county I live in with a firearm including the above methods, plus an additional 4 with a bow.
That is a lot of deer and I don't have a freezer big enough for that many.
Now it's just called alternative method season which includes handguns, muzzleloaders, air rifles, and even atlatles.
The reasoning behind some of this is we just have too many deer here.
I can take 5 deer total in the county I live in with a firearm including the above methods, plus an additional 4 with a bow.
That is a lot of deer and I don't have a freezer big enough for that many.
I am in compete agreement with you. "traditional" does not translate into big bucks.
Then there should be regulations restricting hunting by age and/or by visual acuity; NOT by regulations banning certain firearm accessories.
I'm all for keeping these seasons traditional. The entire point was to give an extra opportunity for those willing to accept limits on their gear. It's okay by me to stretch those limits a little. But taking a .40 rifle, using a plastic-tipped .35 bullet in a sabot with pelletized powder at 2200+fps and a 3x9 scope is hardly a limitation any more than a single shot centerfire. That's not stretching the limits anymore. That's a big middle finger to them. There's nothing inherently wrong with the modern stuff during the general/modern season. Just not during the seasons that were intended to be more difficult. I applaud the change by NM.
I'm also all for allowing alternatives for people who need accommodations. Here in CA, visually impaired are allowed a disabled scope permit that is limited to a 1X optic. It's similar to archery where the physically disabled can use a crossbow. Disabled get a free pass. Besides optics, there's also aperture sights, which are allowed in most states with an open sight requirement and are often used when that rear sight gets too fuzzy. My Traditions gun was made with fiber optic sights -- 2 dots in the rear & 1 up front. That has helped me a lot as my vision changes. It's still an open sight but I can shoot much better with that bit of help than traditional irons.
A lot of folks will rightfully claim that if modern muzzleloaders should be banned, then we should also ban modern archery gear (compounds) during archery only seasons. That would anger a lot of people as there are many more compound shooters and hunters than there are traditional. Even so, I'd be all for it.
Bear in mind, things are different here in CA. We don't have whitetails. We have blacktails, mulies and predators a-plenty. We deal with scarcity of game more than the abundance many of you have in whitetail country.
I'm also all for allowing alternatives for people who need accommodations. Here in CA, visually impaired are allowed a disabled scope permit that is limited to a 1X optic. It's similar to archery where the physically disabled can use a crossbow. Disabled get a free pass. Besides optics, there's also aperture sights, which are allowed in most states with an open sight requirement and are often used when that rear sight gets too fuzzy. My Traditions gun was made with fiber optic sights -- 2 dots in the rear & 1 up front. That has helped me a lot as my vision changes. It's still an open sight but I can shoot much better with that bit of help than traditional irons.
A lot of folks will rightfully claim that if modern muzzleloaders should be banned, then we should also ban modern archery gear (compounds) during archery only seasons. That would anger a lot of people as there are many more compound shooters and hunters than there are traditional. Even so, I'd be all for it.
Bear in mind, things are different here in CA. We don't have whitetails. We have blacktails, mulies and predators a-plenty. We deal with scarcity of game more than the abundance many of you have in whitetail country.
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Here in PA, we have both seasons. Right now is an doe muzzleloader season where any muzzleloader is legal with scope or sight and after Christmas we have a flintlock only season. I can see why states implement such laws to create as many opportunities afield possible. Wild game is a limited resource, only so many available every year and you need to leave a certain percentage every year to replenish the population so everyone has an opportunity to do it again next year. It's a thin line they need to walk to maximize opportunities but also not over-harvest that lessen availability.
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If a scope assures a clean game kill, that's better than an iron-sight wounding.
Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
NM is run by a commie karen who knows nothing of firearms or the constitution.
I have a 1896 tip up in 45/70 with a Vernier sight on back and a globe sight up front.
No scope needed.
I have a 1896 tip up in 45/70 with a Vernier sight on back and a globe sight up front.
No scope needed.
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Such people care nothing for the Constitution, as they believe it to be outmoded and unsuited for modern times; thus they ignore it blithely. Those big .45-70 slugs coming at a target must look like a freight train!
If someone really likes hunting with a scoped in line, saboted bullet muzzleloader they are free to do so in the general season. Back in the 70s we fought for a flintlock only season in Pa. We could hunt on 2 weekends, state game lands only IIRC. now we have a 2 week, in some WMUs a 4 week flintlock only season in January. We had no support from the general hunting community until they figured out it gave them a chance to take more game. In October we have an any ML season. How about the any ML season be switched to January and the flintlock season be in October so us older hunters won't have to deal with snow and cold? You know, just like scopes benefit us older hunters as a reason for using inlines. (Said with tongue firmly planted in cheek). FWIW if you can't see open sights use peep sights with a large aperature. I've been using one for years on unmentionables. And don't get me started on crossbows. 
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I was thinking that too. I’m 66 and can still use traditional sights.
But
Peep might be in my future
We have wheelchair areas and other accommodations for human frailties
Cross bows for people who can’t draw even a compound, let alone a traditional bow
Most of us have some sort of vision correction. Invented before 1300 AD it was still rare before the twentieth century. But we don’t give up our sport because of glasses.
I would have to think long and hard to answer this question
I’ve went all most completely smoothie these days, how would we react to a smoothbore only flintlock rule?
Hmmmmm
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This is a similar scenario to what has occurred with the archery seasons. Originally archery season was meant to have longbows and recurves. Then technology caught up and the compound was introduced. Now crossbows are in the mix. Technology will always be there to push the traditional aside. It’s all about money for the manufacturers. Then the government steps in and tries to improve things and, as usual makes things worse. Once politicians that don’t have a clue about hunting, muzzleloaders, etc. things get worse. Just my $.02.
Allowing scopes is a step towards destroying traditional muzzleloaders.
Put on a wider front sight, and widen the notch in the rear sight if you can't see them well. It makes a big difference.
Put on a wider front sight, and widen the notch in the rear sight if you can't see them well. It makes a big difference.
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